Jenn Smith on Michigan, the WNBA & What Basketball Taught Her. Nolan and Hobbs Episode 34

[From Crisler Center to courts around the world, they wore the Maize and Blue. And now they’re bringing you the game inside and out. Hail Media presents Nolan and Hobbs, the Women’s Hoops Homecourt Podcast, hosted by Maddie Nolan, and Jordan Hobbs. Hey everyone and welcome back to the Nolan and Hobbs show with just me, Maddie Nolan this week. Last week, Jordan was by herself and shout out to Knight’s Steakhouse for hosting the alumni squad, the current players. I had such a fun time getting to watch that episode.

It’s so weird not being in the episode, but still watching and kind of being a fan of your own show, which was really fun. But shout out Knight’s, one of our sponsors. And before we get into all the other updates, I have to crack open my OLIPOP Ginger Ale today. I’ve never tried this flavor, so we’ll have to see here. Okay, you guys are getting a live reaction—first taste. Oh, yeah. It’s good. I mean, it’s exactly what you would think it would taste like. So, really refreshing as always. Love my OLIPOP. So, today we’re going to do Worldwide Wolverines.

We have a couple updates for you guys on our alumni. We also have Naz Hillmon. If you guys have been following along the WNBA, she has been absolutely killing it. And then we have a really special guest today, Jennifer “Jen” Smith. Played at Michigan until 2004 and is fifth all-time on the scoring chart. So without further ado, cheers. One more sip before I get going into the updates. All right, so first up, Worldwide Wolverines. As we’ve talked about before, Leigha Brown is on the Puerto Rican 3v3 national team.

They just played in the Santo Domingo tournament and got bronze, which is really exciting. Kind of a fun fact for you guys, I played in Puerto Rico for like two weeks, very briefly a couple years ago. And one of my teammates for my team was actually on the 3v3 team with Leigha. So, that was really fun to get to see them play together. and I actually messaged both of them and I was like, “This is so crazy.” but shout out Leigha Brown coming home with a bronze medal. Greta Kampschroeder is still in Australia.

Her team is actually playing in the semifinals. The time change really messes me up, so I’m not quite sure if it’s today or if it was yesterday, but her team is still playing, so send good luck to her. Emily Kiser is back from Australia, but will be heading to Puerto Rico. Unfortunately, will not be playing with Leigha Brown, but we’ll be playing against her. So, that’s going to be really fun and she’ll start that in September. So, just a little couple of updates for you guys with Worldwide Wolverines.

As a shock to no one, Naz is still killing it. Atlanta Dream are still doing pretty well, of course. Naz had a couple of great games these last couple weeks. So, first off, she had a 24-point performance in 25 minutes against the Toronto Tempo. They ended up getting the win. She went eight-for-eight from the field, four-for-four from three. Did not miss. If you would have told me Naz was going four-for-four from three even three years ago, I would have been like, hm. But as always, Naz works really hard.

Not surprising to see her continued success. In addition to her 24-point game, she had 18 points in 25 minutes the other day in a win versus Seattle. In addition to that, she had two rebounds, three assists, one steal, one block, and went six-for-nine from the field. And then most recently, they beat the Phoenix Mercury. She had 10 points, five rebounds, and an assist while shooting two-for-five from the three-point line, which is 40%. An insane number, especially in the WNBA. So, shout out Naz. Keep killing it.

By the way, before we get into our really exciting interview today with Jen Smith, we are so excited to announce our sponsorship with Valiant, we’re going to put a link in our description for the football schedule t-shirts, but also keep an eye out in the near future for some Hail Media merch. We know a couple of you guys have been looking forward to that. So, super excited. Keep your eyes peeled and we’ll have updates in the upcoming weeks and months. So, today we have Jen Smith joining us. We are really excited.

She’s fifth all-time in scoring, 10th all-time in rebounds, top 10 in various other categories. Relating to scoring obviously she was Big Ten honorable mention her first three years and then earned All-Big Ten second team her senior year. She went on to play in the WNBA for a little bit, played in Europe in the EuroLeague and she is currently the head coach at Great Lakes Christian College and we are so excited to have her on today. So, hello everyone and welcome back. We are so excited to have Jen Smith on, class of 2004 with us today.

Jen, welcome to the Nolan and Hobbs podcast. Thank you so much for having me. Yes, we’re so excited. So, we’re just going to kind of go through early life in basketball, recruitment process, obviously your time at Michigan, and then catch up what you’re doing now. So, we’ll start with this: you grew up in Lansing, Michigan. Were you an MSU fan growing up, a Michigan fan? What did that look like for you? So yeah, actually I was an MSU fan because my hometown is DeWitt, which is 10 minutes north of Lansing.

So MSU is just right down the road. So I grew up going to those games. I remember Kristen Rasmussen. She was a couple years older than I was, but kind of like idolized her game. and so yeah, I would I would go to those games. my surrounding family, they’re MSU fans, so Michigan wasn’t really in the picture until later on. Okay.

Yeah. And so when did you really start to fall in love with basketball? And was there ever a point in your career where you like, oh, I could play in college or did you grow up being like, I this is just what I want to do. so I started out at as early as they started us back then. So, I was probably I think around 8 years old when I played more organized basketball. but I always wanted to do what my brother wanted to do or my cousins wanted to do. So, I was always kind of hanging out with the boys. so I was always around sports and athletics, which definitely helped me later on. because my brother was 6’7 and my cousins are big guys, too.

Basketball was always—I don’t know—it was just my passion. I tried gymnastics, believe it or not. I tried softball and volleyball. I did stick with volleyball until 8th grade. but basketball was always just something that I gravitated towards and just truly loved. Yeah.

Just funny you said gymnastics because I did that as a kid as well and I loved it and I like genuinely thought I was going to the Olympics but my parents were like you’re going to be too tall. Like you’re done. You’re going to be too tall. that was there like a similar story with that for you where they’re like, “Hey, it’s not looking good heightwise for you.” Yeah, I think I think we all knew it, but you know, my favorite thing to do there, I think, was just jump in that sponge pit. So, I think we all gymnastics wasn’t it for me.

That’s fair. That’s so fair. So obviously, like you said, you fell in love with the game of basketball. What did your recruiting process look like? And then how did you end up choosing Michigan over being a Michigan State fan your whole life? I was blessed to have a really really talented AAU team. I played for Capital City Express. They’re still around, but I played with Kristin Haynie and Lindsay Bowen and Sandy [last name unclear], Lucy DeMartin, Robyn Fralick. so we had a great team. back then it wasn’t really the showcase tournaments or we didn’t have the Nike circuit, you know, the Adidas circuit, the Puma, all that.

We went to nationals and that’s where we kind of showcased our talent. So, the recruiting process was much different. It was still paper—I’d get letters in the mail. I still have this picture of me in my living room surrounded by letters from multiple colleges that were recruiting me. which was pretty cool to kind of have like a visual. but my top three were Michigan, Michigan State, and Duke at the end. but I am very close to my family. I love being close to home. So Michigan and Michigan State were were pretty much it.

Okay. And then how did you choose between those two going like how did you end up ultimately deciding to go to Michigan? my high school coach, Bill McCullen, he still coaches at DeWitt High School. He helped me a lot. He at the time was a Michigan fan and kind of encouraged me to go check it out. There was going to be some coaching changes at MSU. It was when I think it was Karen Langeland was stepping down. I didn’t know who the new coaching staff was going to be. It ended up being Joanne P. McCallie. It would have been great to step in there, but obviously super happy with my decision at Michigan.

I wanted to study nursing, too. so academically, made more sense to to choose the Maize and Blue. Yeah, definitely. And you don’t regret your choice at all, I hope. Not at all. I am die-hard Maize and Blue. So is my son. My daughter’s she’s kind of like half and half, but you know, she’s team, so perfect. Yeah.

You never know. Growing up, sometimes the kids want to be different than their parents. So, I’m glad. yeah, my daughter went through that for a minute, but she’s back. She’s back. Good. so going into college, do you remember your first practice or maybe like your first summer at Michigan and what that felt like for you? I do. I tell people the conditioning was, you know, what really leaves a lasting impact on a person. as you know. so I remember just trying to drive my car and barely being able to push the gas pedal because we were so sore. and that was back when we had kind of like a different style of weightlifting.

We pretty much had the same workout as like the football team. It was not geared more towards basketball. but conditioning definitely remember all of all of those things running the stadium stairs and all that. you never had to do that. So yes preserve yeah preserve your knees. so I do I remember, you know, the very beginning. I think that was probably mentally one of the most challenging times because as an incoming freshman, you there’s no way to prepare for that. You know, it’s just mentally and physically the most exhausted you’ll ever be in your life.

Yes. Besides when you have a newborn child. Oh, I’ll note that. do you remember having anything like what helped you, I guess, get through that time frame of just like physically, mentally the hardest until having a newborn was for you at that point in your life? I think just knowing that I had had this dream to play in the WNBA. so I knew there was goals for me after college. I had that dream since the WNBA started. I remember watching like Lisa Leslie and just idolizing her and wanting to be that. So I had goals.

I always set goals and I knew I still wanted to go further to achieve them. Yeah. So I guess I’m going to jump back a little bit because you mentioned the WNBA and I believe this is its 30th year. So it was 1996 when it came about. So what you would have been middle school, elementary school age? 96 I would have been 8th grade going into my freshman year. Yeah.

So before the WNBA, did you like how would you I guess you talked about playing with your brothers and your cousins. Did you have any like knowledge of women’s basketball of playing at the next level like before? I don’t know. They kind of had the professional option. Obviously you had college around, but did your parents take you to like the Michigan State women’s games or what did that look like for you? Yep. my parents took me to to the MSU women’s basketball games. no one in my family had gone in my immediate family had gone to college, so I was kind of like the first to explore all those things. but I knew I knew I wanted to play college basketball.

I just, you know, I didn’t I didn’t even know that there were options in Europe until much later. and then once I learned that, I was like, I could play forever. You know, there’s so many so many different teams over there and opportunities. so I guess I just my passion for the game is what carried me through until the WNBA because I didn’t know at that time that there were opportunities in Europe as well. Yeah, I think that’s been arguably one of the coolest parts of having the WNBA and women’s college basketball grow recently is the visibility for younger girls to grow up and know, oh, I could be like her, whereas I was lucky enough to have that, but your generation kind of was on the back end of being able to see that, oh, I could make a profession out of this and now they can make a lot of money.

Yeah. Yeah. I Yes, it is. you know, I would have obviously loved that myself. but I think it’s amazing for the youth, you know, and the current players today. Yeah. so jumping back into your time at Michigan, sorry, but I just was like thinking I was like, that’s okay. Do you remember outside of the conditioning maybe like a basketball moment where you’re welcome to college moment? You’re like, oh crap, like this is big time now. I would say probably my freshman year. I didn’t start and so you know that first game going in you are always extremely nervous.

So I do remember getting those butterflies you know and later on you know as you get more experienced that kind of goes away but I remember those first few games and you know I wanted to be a starter so going out there and you know you had that pressure on your shoulders to prove yourself out there. so as a freshman, I do I can almost like feel it, you know? it was very nerve-wracking at the time. 100%. Just not wanting to make any mistakes and just prove that’s, you know, you belong on the court for sure. you had a pretty big jump in points per game from your junior to your senior year.

You went from 14 points a game to 21 points per game. What do you like attribute that to? was it just a different mentality? Did you do something different in the offseason? Yeah. I actually stayed every summer. I was the only player to stay every summer in the offseason. so I had been working on my game since I got there. and thankfully, we had a new coaching staff come in my senior year, Cheryl Burnett, and she met with me right off the bat, and as she watched me play, I think she knew I was going to kind of be the go-to on that offense. so she thankfully believed in me and demanded the ball get to my hands.

And I was a player that wanted the basketball. You know, I think sometimes you see I was a true post. I a lot of back to the basket moves. I wanted to be very physical down low. and if we were in a crunch and needed some points, I wanted the ball. I like that. And did you always have that mentality? and then the coaching kind of shift gave you more opportunities or was that a mentality shift you think like going through through your first three years and then your senior year like all right like I know what I can do now give me the ball.

I think I always my confidence grew I think at a younger age. I was lucky to have an AA coach that taught me some really good solid fundamentals in the post. and I don’t I don’t know how I mentally I guess I do have some pretty good mental strength. but I always tell my kids and my players now that you have to talk to yourself. You have to constantly tell yourself positive feedback because if you don’t, you can get in your head. so I think somehow I just developed that and I did. I always wanted the basketball. you know, it’s it’s tough when you don’t score, you have an off moment, but I always say try to focus on what you can control.

For me, I took pride in my defense and that usually made my offense flow. 100%. That’s my dad always told me that control what you can control. It’s a big probably what I tell I train kids. That’s what I tell them all the time.

So, I’m glad it’s a universal theme for a lot of people. so obviously you had a great senior, you had a great career overall, but your senior year you scored 659 points. You ended with 1714 points, ended up fifth all-time currently in the books. when you look back on your career, do you have a favorite moment, a favorite game or like a feeling that you just will always cherish and hold on to? I think my senior year was something special. You know, I didn’t really know what to expect. It was nerve-wracking. going into your senior year in college and knowing that I wanted to play afterwards and not knowing the coaching staff or who was going to be hired.

I think that entire season just being able to finally show people what I was capable of. and being surrounded by great teammates as well and as you know those bonds you develop with your teammates are are lifelong you know so I still talk to my teammates to this day so I can’t really capture one specific moment but just that whole senior season was something special for me. I understand.

Did you were you like paying attention? Was anyone telling you like, “Hey, you’re you’re climbing up the ranks of the points.” And obviously at that time you were behind Diane Dietz, but were was that in your mind at all or were you just like, “Okay, cool.” Like, “I’m just going to do what I can do.” Yeah. No, I never was one to keep track of my points. and I don’t necessarily love focusing on it. I think that if you’re too focused on how many points you score, you’re not necessarily the greatest teammate.

Agreed. and I do that. my son’s 14 now and he plays in the Nike EYBL, Junior EYBL, so I’ve finally kind of got a grasp of, you know, what things are like nowadays. It’s not the same. but I never keep track of his points and I just I don’t think it’s a focus. I think you just need to go out there and and do your best in every category and be a good teammate. Yeah, I love that. so obviously great senior year, you graduate, you end up getting drafted 32nd overall to Detroit Shock and then play with the New York Liberty.

What was that like? You talked about always having the dream to play in the WNBA, but for you to hear your name on draft night and then for you to actually get to play in a game, which is equally as hard as we know now, it was pretty surreal. I didn’t really, you know, truly it it was hard to grasp because I did have that dream for so long. So, I guess it wasn’t really real until I got there. And, you know, you hear that each step you go further along, like high school to college, college to pro is a huge huge change.

And it was extremely demanding. so being with Detroit, there was some confusion because I was supposed to be drafted by New York originally. so for me to be drafted by Detroit was kind of even more special to me because obviously it was in Michigan. and you know, my family and friends would be able to come watch me. But I ended up getting cut the last possible day of training camp. So that was tough. But I think, you know, those are the things that kind of make you who you are later on in life and you know, it made me want it even more. so I worked hard in the EuroLeague and then was able to thankfully get picked up by New York the next season.

Yeah. So could you take us through what did was training camp? What did that look like for you back then? I would say it was like that freshman year of conditioning at Michigan. It’s a shock to your system. and when I was drafted, it was the year after Detroit Shock had won the championship. So, they were stacked. They had a really good team. so, you know, I was playing against girls that were my height or taller but stronger, you know, and quicker and just as good and better than than me talent-wise.

So, it was just a challenge all around, but it was kind of a great eye-opener for me because, you know, it showed me what I had to do to improve and to to be a make an impact at that level. Yeah, 100%.

And do you think your mindset of like not focusing on scoring is was really impactful and helpful for you at the professional level because like you said, you’re playing against people who are just as tall as you and stronger. So, you’re trying to make an impact in a different way at that point. I think so. I think defensively that’s always been kind of one of my passions is to be an active defensive post player that can move their feet and get steals and so yeah, I think that definitely did help. And then offensively, you know, you have to in college I did develop I’m a left-handed person.

I eat left-handed. I write left-handed, but I shot with my right hand on the perimeter. so in college I did develop my left hand and that was kind of my go-to. so having that I think helped, but you know I knew I needed to learn more moves and become a better perimeter player. So always growth. There’s always growth no matter what. And you talked a little bit about you went over played in the EuroLeague in Slovakia, correct? Yep.

How was that experience for you—the most challenging part and the most rewarding part? Most challenging definitely was the culture shock because at the time hardly anybody spoke English. my coach didn’t speak English. I had a teammate that was my translator. Yeah, it was tough.

I did the same. I played in France last season. I had the same I had the same experience. One of my teammates translated, so I get it. Yeah. But at the same time, it’s kind of cool because you can can just completely focus on the game. You know, you don’t necessarily understand what what’s all being said in the team huddle and you know, the emotions aren’t really as big of a factor. You’re just in your zone. So, it had its pros and cons, but I think you know outside of basketball, just going to the grocery store, you know, people didn’t people didn’t communicate in English.

And then my teammates, you know, were hesitant to speak to me in English because they didn’t know if they were saying the right thing. And so I did learn a little bit of Slovak when I was over there. but definitely the culture shock and being okay with just being alone kind of in that silence, you know, a lot of the times because back then it wasn’t like we had social media like we do today. you know, so I had to find things to occupy my time with. and then most rewarding was kind of also just learning different cultures.

I love to learn different cultures and being able to travel, you know, being young and single without children at the time. It was a blessing to be able to travel and get paid for, you know, a sport that you’re playing. It was it’s the most beautiful thing. That’s probably one of my biggest regrets is not playing more and enjoying my time. So, not necessarily pushing myself to play in the EuroLeague at the elite level. I would have loved to have gone back and just kind of enjoyed, you know, seeing different cultures and experiencing the travel there. 100%. do you have any like funny traveling moments or like food moments or just like culture shock where you’re like other than you know the language obviously where you’re like, “Oh, okay. this is what we do here.

I think I let me think on that. Okay, so one of the flights to Russia the plane was tiny. and we walked in and it had shag carpet and like curtains and it was old and I don’t like I’m not scared to fly but that made me a little nervous. It just it wasn’t a good vibe. and going to Russia as an American in general is just a little nerve-wracking sometimes. So, I think just the whole vibe of like the shag carpet, the curtains, and like I was just nervous to travel there. but we made it. Obviously, everything was fine once we got there. but yeah, that was that was a little shock.

Definitely. you I mean getting to play in the EuroLeague for those who don’t know that means you get to travel within Europe to different countries whereas where Jordan and I played last year we just stay within Jordan stayed within Italy I stayed within France so Jen you getting to travel all across Europe did you have a favorite location that you got to see or even outside of basketball that you got to do while you were over there definitely Greece we went to Athens that was just amazing to see the Acropolis and their culture there.

It was just a good vibe. Like everybody seemed happy and it was warm. I love warm weather. so Lord knows why I chose Slovakia. It’s like the same weather as Michigan. So that’s why I say if I could do it again and enjoy it, I would go somewhere warm. but yeah, I would say Athens, Greece. and then it was pretty cool to go to the Red Square in Moscow to just see that. you know, it’s pretty amazing. and then other ones I loved Spain just because again the culture, the vibe, the warmth. but yeah, I think my top one would be Greece.

Yeah, makes sense. So, you played a little bit in the WNBA. You’re currently the head coach at Great Lakes Christian College. How did you get into coaching? Did you always want to be a coach or like kind of how did you segue into that after playing? Yeah, I did. so at Michigan, I did start nursing there. but then quickly learned that that is a major that doesn’t go well with playing a collegiate sport. So that’s also why I had to stay every summer to make up for those credits that I lost out on the first year.

Ended up getting my degree in sport management and then also got my master’s in sport management. And I always always wanted to coach at the collegiate level. but after I had my son, I didn’t want to travel like that and I wanted to be present like daily in his life and I knew that as a college basketball coach at a more elite level, you know, you’re not really there as much and that’s your life. You know, you’re married to basketball. So, I didn’t I didn’t try to coach at that level. I just did more youth coaching in high school, AAU.

So, I did that for years and then this opportunity came along. An acquaintance of mine, he was reffing one of my son’s games and he just said, “Hey, would you be interested?” And it’s it was a great opportunity, great time in my life. You know, my kids are older now and I’m not coaching my son’s team anymore. so, just it was perfect timing and everything worked out so well. I’m so happy to be here. Good.

And this you’re heading into your second season, correct? Correct. How was the first year? Highs, lows, what did you I guess what was your biggest takeaway from first year head college coaching? it’s it was definitely a a humbling experience. much different than, you know, our experience at a Big Ten college. I’ve never been one that needs anything flashy, you know, anything like that. And we definitely don’t have that here. So, I walked in, I was hired late in the summer, so I had hardly any time to recruit.

So, I inherited 10 players. And I tried real hard to get this girl from Colorado. I had no idea if she was going to come or not. Delise, she ended up telling me she was coming at the last minute and she ended up being our leading scorer. got regional player of the year. She was amazing. So thankful for her and then the entire team that stayed because I was asked by a lot of staff, are you going to have a team? Are you going to have a team? And I’m like, yeah, what do you mean? And so people were questioning whether or not the girls were going to stay and it was dependent on who was hired.

So I’m glad that they liked me and I’m thankful that they stayed and we had a great season. It was, you know, lots of lots of ups and downs with them learning a new system. and I am a coach that likes to play up-tempo press the whole game and I didn’t have enough players to do that. so we kind of just rolled with what we had and they gave me the best that they could. U, we ended up losing the championship game and regionals by three points. had like a couple of turnovers, couple of injuries late in the season. but another crazy thing is I only have one returning player.

So, I had to recruit an entire new team. all of them were seniors. So, I had one player that left, went on, and she’s going to med school. So, one player returned, and now I have 12 new players. Wow. So, just rebuilding from the ground up. And do you guys don’t do summer workouts or are they optional or how does it work at this level? They’re optional. so I’ve had the group that is kind of in the Lansing surrounding area. They’ve come in and we’ve hit the weights pretty hard and we’ve been in the gym. we just got a new basketball court though, so it’s kind of off limits right now for a little bit.

So we’re just in the weight room for the next couple of weeks until preseason starts. Okay, perfect. So what are you looking forward to most in this second year? I am very much looking forward to implementing my own system and the culture. High expectations, high demand and players that just truly love the sport and are there for the right reasons. and I actually just had the whole team over to my house for a team bonding. a couple of days on Wednesday and Thursday. So, played pickup, did a few activities, and then they came over and I just I couldn’t be more grateful for the girls that I have on the team.

It was like immediate team chemistry. Their attitudes are great and I just I really see us going really far this year and Nationals are in Florida in March, so we better get there. Motivation. Yeah, there’s extra motivation for everyone.

Yeah. so I guess the last question would be what did you take from your playing days that you now implement into your coaching style? I think that being a female who has played at the level that I was able to play at is pretty rare nowadays. and across the board, the physical, the mental, I think it’s it’s mental more than anything. and I think I have more empathy than some coaches just because I understand I truly understand every single aspect, you know, from being a woman to, you know, having those demands placed on you.

So, one thing I did is I also brought on a coach this year to kind of more work on the mental development because I think that there’s a gap, you know, there I think everybody needs it, right? but I think especially as a a college athlete, you know, you’re trying to do your best academically. My players also work. so they’ve got an extreme amount of demand and expectation on them. so I think I think the mental almost anything more than the physical is of like high importance to me. The physical will come because I know what to do to get them there.

It’s just we need to work on the consistency. One thing I told them this weekend was, you know, basketball season’s like a marathon. It’s not short. And so you have to lock in from the moment you step on the court August 24th this year until our last game in March. so and we all have to be there for each other and constantly check in and make sure that we’re consistent every day. Yeah, I love that.

I lied. I want one more question. just because it’s so unique to be able to have a college coach. Obviously, we were lucky enough to have KBA and Danielle on on the current Michigan staff, but just for fans and even kids looking to get into college, like could you just give us a little bit insight of what you look for for people for kids that you’re trying to recruit? I look at it all. I honestly I observe, you know, obviously one their talent and what I think their potential would be. and then definitely their attitude.

Are they a team player? How do they respond to a bad call by a ref? Like are they talking back? do they help their teammates up when they fall? and looking at how they respond when they speak with the coaches or on the bench during a timeout. Yeah.

I think even meeting families, you know, and getting to know, you know, how they grew up. because basketball is so diverse and that’s the beauty of it is you don’t have just one single type of player and it’s a lot of different personalities coming together. So, how do we all gel together? so, I just I try to get good kids that love the game, and then try to support them as well as I can after that. Yeah, I love that.

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for taking time to come on today. I know Jordan wishes she could have met you, but hopefully we could see you at an alumni game or something. I know you’re going to be really busy this winter, but it would be great to connect in person, but thank you again. It was so nice to meet you. Yes.

Thank you so much. Nice to meet you as well. If you like this kind of content, please like, share, follow, and subscribe.]