Unraveling a Lifetime of MS: Jeff’s Journey. MS Michigan Man 64. Warrior 65

[I wouldn’t even wish you’d understand. I just wish that God had a better plan. I’m so confused. I need a redo. A redo. There’s something that’s inside of me that’s begging and begging and pleading. I just want to feel free. I just want to feel lovely. I’m surrounded by love that’s in pain. Can I wipe your tears away? Please don’t hurt me. I hate that it’s for me.

I hate that it’s for me. Hey, welcome back to the MS Michigan Man 64 podcast. Thank you to the beautiful Amber K, warrior number two. That is her song. I hate that it’s for me that you hear on the intro. Uh please check out her episode. She’s got a beautiful voice. She’s a fellow MSer like me. My name is Brian. I am the MS Michigan man 64. In 1992, I’m playing for the University of Michigan in the Rose Bowl against Washington. 5 years after that, I get diagnosed with MS. Um, a chronic disease there is no cure for. I’ve been living that life for the last 29 years. I talk about my journey as well as the journey of other chronic disease warriors just try to help people understand what it’s like going through that diagnosis, the fight that we have to fight every day. Today I am talking to a guy that I just met on TikTok not long ago, but his story is just so badass and I I think it’s really really important to hear. Uh Jeff is from Nebraska and he was just diagnosed with his MS in 2023, but he had symptoms for about three decades beforehand um that

just went ignored and uh he wanted to come on and just talk about his journey. So please welcome to the podcast. Jeff, how you doing today, Jeff? Doing good. How are you, Brian? I’m doing all right, my friend. I’m doing all right. So, Jeff, I know uh we just met not long ago on TikTok and um I I I just I heard what how your story went and um I I think it’s interesting as hell. Uh you went through your diagnosis in 2023. Um just talk about what led up to the doctors telling you that you had MS and I know that you had symptoms way before that and we’re going to get into all that too, but just talk about, you know, what led up to getting that diagnosis in 2023. Yeah, sure. Um, and starting in about in the mid- teens, I would say, uh, the pain that I had been experiencing for decades had gotten to the point I couldn’t I just couldn’t take it anymore. Um, I talked to my primary care do doctor who I’d only seen maybe twice before. Um, and she put me on gabapentin.

Um 5 years later I was at the maximum she could prescribe for me and uh then I kind of suffered through that for a number or the next few years and then I went and I talked to her the last time I I said we’ve got to figure something out for this pain because there’s times where I just get so weak my I can’t even pick up a wrench and it’s it’s getting to really interfere with work. She says, “Yeah, let’s figure something out.” She says, “Would you mind doing an MRI after she’d looked at some of my tests and labs?” And uh yeah, that’s great because I wanted to do an MRI. I was going to ask you about that. And it just so happened they had the mobile MRI in the small hospital I go to and that day. And uh so I went out, we did a quick full back and brain MRI and she came back in the room half hour later and said, “Um, Jeff, I don’t know anything about MS, but you have MS and now you get to find a neurologist.” And so the hunt was on and that was in

April of 2023. Yeah. Um, and and and so and you’re you’re an older guy. I mean, I’m 56 years old. I think you said you’re 58. So, you’re getting told this in 2023. You’re already in your 50s. And you What’s going through your head’s got to be like, what the [expletive] man? I I I mean, I’d never I What was going through your head when they told you that in your 50s? Well, the first thought the very first thought in my brain was that my sister was right. uh because I have a little sister is a doctor and uh about 15 years before that she had said you know what I wonder if you don’t have MS because every so often one of my legs would get kind of weird and the pain that I was I was living with and and it was getting worse and uh she said that that day and I said no it can’t be it doesn’t make sense to me and uh but what I was worried about was getting that I was developing Parkinson’s and I didn’t know what was going on. There’s so much similar I come to find out afterward that’s so similar between Parkinson’s and and some MS cases that I was really getting nervous about it.

Yeah. Um, one grandfather had it and he died with all of his mental faculties, but none of his physical and yeah, it was Yeah. What a what a horrible place to be in. So, I didn’t really feel that was a good idea, right? And so we went with went with the uh neurologist I found at UNMC in Omaha and really I loved her. She was fantastic uh Dr. Aana Shirani and she is now in Kansas City and it’s not undoable. That’s four or four and a half hours down there. Yeah. you know, it’d be a good excuse to go to KC, but I uh am happy with the neurologist at the at the university that I found after she left. And so, I only drive an hour and a half.

Yeah. So, when they when they told you that you had MS, I know that you we had talked when we were talking earlier that you said that the one neurologist told you that you probably had MS for the last 30 years. Um, can you kind of explain what what the neurologist told you when she was when cuz I mean if you’re just getting diagnosed in 2023, what was she talking about that you probably had it for the last 30 years? Well, we’ve been doing a question and answer because she says, “I see that we really do not have much for uh uh records for you. Going back all those years, you said you uh stayed at the same family or same practice since birth and on into your adult years into your 30s. And uh there’s not much for records there. And no, there’s not going to be because I I went the last time I seriously went and tried to get any help was when I was 18 years old and I had an old sprayer, a self-propelled sprayer that um had snapped an axle shaft and it was a a tall sprayer to go over top of

crops. And uh so I had gotten up there with the welder leads and and I latched my ankles and my knee and or my knees and I’m bent over, leaned way forward. So, you know, this didn’t surprise me that I felt like I threw my back out. Yeah. All of a sudden, I was just stuck up there and uh my dad and my sister’s boyfriend had to come out of the house and and get me off that that stupid sprayer. But um that I found out wasn’t really that I threw my back out. It was that the strain of what I was doing set off an MS hug and got Yeah. and you know went to the doctor.

He said, “Oh, well, you pinched a nerve and which it made sense, you know, and uh yeah, he sent me some muscle relaxants, went home, drank scotch and soda with a couple muscle relaxants and fell asleep for 12 hours and I woke up. I felt pretty good, right?” You know. Yeah. Yeah. And uh then it just kept happening over years. And it could be that I would well I had to quit farming in uh 1994–95 that winter and I went to work for one of the railroads and uh I would have that MS hug still hounding me even at that new job and it’s physical brutal physical job. And Mhm. Uh that hug just followed me every week of every year. It just was a constant. And if I got a month together that I didn’t have that happen, I was considering that a win cuz then I was afraid for when the shoe was going to drop, right? Cuz uh I I didn’t know what it was like

without it really. and until I was working with another assistant foreman and he had a bad back. So, we had this running prescription between the two of us for about 10,000 pills a month of codeine. So, you know, that was how we functioned basically for the next year. Yeah. So, you’re basically just going through life just, you know, just just doing whatever you have to do just to make it through the next day. I mean without any answers and then you got in at in 2023 they’re telling you that you got MS and this neurologist is telling you that there like it was like when according to your MRI you probably had this for the last 20 30 years and the reason I’m bringing that up is it very very similar to in my in my story I was diagnosed when I was 27 5 years earlier I’m playing football in Michigan a year after I at I um I got done playing football. So, we’re talking 1993. I got in a really bad car accident. My head went through a windshield and I had to go to the ER. The ER they did an MRI. That’s the first time I ever had an MRI in my life. And uh um you know, they the doctor came into my uh the room and

said, you know, hey, your head’s okay. No concussion, but you might want to follow up with a neuro. There’s signs of MS. And me being 22, 23 years old, I’m just like, “Okay, I don’t even know what you’re talking about. I feel fine.” And I just kept on moving. So my neurologist today when he looks at my MRIs, he’s like, “Brian, there’s no doubt in my mind. You had it when you were probably playing football in Michigan. You know, you had it. The signs were there when you were 23 when you got in that car accident.” He said, “There’s no doubt that it was there. It just needed something to ignite it.” And you know, it that’s what happened in 97. And I I it was all stress. Stress ignited it. But it was there. I was in my body back when I was playing football. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And I I thought back to that whole period of time over the next two years, I would think back and remember instances, particular moments where I didn’t know what was going on at that time. Now I know. I know exactly what was going on. It was MS and it was affecting me in ways that I really had no idea it was anything else was affecting me. Um I did find alcohol at in my 20s though that as a teenager I

should say it really worked. It helped a lot. Yeah. Yeah. You know and and I went through the same thing. Um I know we talked about this a little bit too. I I I never got to the point where alcohol, you know, I I needed to get shitfaced drunk every day, but I was like at a point with the pain, the neuropathy in my legs where I was drinking six beers every night. That was just to just to take the edge off to go to sleep every night. And I know a lot of people that do that um with MS, with that neuropathy, and I know that you were in the same boat as me. Yeah. Right. Um there was a lot of other reasons that I was trying to drink and so I I wound up drinking heavily um even as a teenager. So, you know, that just kind of fed right into it. Um self-medicate, you know, and it got me through it. It kept me functional and I was able to make it to work every day no matter what time I went to bed. You know, I’m a good Gen Xer. went to bed at 4:00 a.m. I still made it to work by 6. So, you know, but yeah, it was the same thing. You know, you’re you’re trying to

self-medicate, trying to just keep going because we have so much pressure to to keep going. You know, people work through having the flu and and I did too. you know, it didn’t matter if I was sick or a dog, I was going to still go to work, right? And you know, that’s not always the best thing to do. Yeah, I hear you. So, let me ask you this. I mean, we’re we’re the same age. Um, and I I like in our era, you know, we were brought up to kind of mask the way that we feel as men, you know. Um, and it wasn’t up until probably about 10 years ago, so into my 40s, when I actually, you know, tried to kind of figure it out that the mental part is really, really important. It is real and and it and it’s important to take care of that. Um, do you feel the same way? I mean, we’re the same age. Do you feel like the mental part I know that you you you you were using alcohol as a tool to manage your your MS as well as I was, but I I kind of figured out that that wasn’t going to be the answer to me feeling better. And I just sort of taking care of my mind, the mental part a lot better.

Yeah. Boy, do I wish I would have figured it out at about the same age. Uh but, you know, hey, it is what it is. Uh yeah, and uh you know, you’re right. Um we came of a generation that you sucked it up and did whatever you needed to do. Nothing counted unless it was a bone sticking out from the skin or a gushing fire hydrant of of blood, right? You know, that those are the only things that really counted for for going and going to the doctor. Um, now I remember chopping my finger and well, I separated the knuckle and completely and my finger was stuck out and uh I’d been helping grandpa, you know, and he said, “Well, go to the house and get grandma.” And I went to the house and grandma looked at it. She grabbed my hand and she just went like this. Bang. popped it back in, rubbed some button picker on it, put a band-aid on and said, “Go back out and help grandpa.”

Yep. You’re good to go. Yeah. I mean, that’s the way that’s the way it was, you know. And I I kind of think that that that attitude and that era that we were brought up in. Um I I give a lot of credit to that. you know, my dad playing football at Michigan uh just for my attitude and just, you know, never quit and and you know, it’s tough with this disease getting diagnosed with a chronic disease. How how did your family understand the diagnosis? Um I mean, so late in life, 23 in 2023, you’re getting told, I mean, how did all your family understand that diagnosis? How they learning about it? Um, you know, really my wife uh she uh she was like me. She was actually uh uh a sense of relief seemed to come over her because at least we had an answer.

We knew why I couldn’t even have her give me a back rub because of the the sensitivity and to touch and the pain that would come from just being touched on my back even. Um, it was, you know, hard to have intimate moments when you can’t even be touched. But, you know, uh, she was and she continues to be, uh, the number one steady, steadfast rock in my life. Um, my stepsons, they’re both, uh, mentally handicapped. um they uh they pretty much just went, “Oh, okay. Well, when are we going to the museum or again or whatever?” You know, they they didn’t really care.

Yeah. Uh my stepdaughter, she was she was worried and we explained everything as well as we could. Um, and my my parents and my sisters, my parents, um, even though my mother has my aunt, uh, I have an aunt that had MS, but hers is fairly mild the way it sounds. and um she said, you know, she’s had some understanding, but not as much as as my wife did really. Um and dad, of course, he had just gotten di diagnosed with Parkinson’s. And so from what we had discussed before, he had told the doctors that um sounds like what my son is dealing with with MS.

And yeah, so we Dad and I have actually been able to have some pretty good conversations about I bet Yeah. Yeah. I bet I bet you and your dad can really just kind of just relate cuz you guys can, you know, just you’re both going through your own thing. I mean, it’s different, but it’s the same. And you know, I and I think it’s just that it’s important for us just to have somebody to talk to, you know, I mean, that understands what we’re talking about, you know, and we don’t have to like we don’t have to like, you know, just it’s easy, you know? There’s just some people that just it’s easier to talk about what we’re going through because they understand it for whatever reason cuz they’re going through something. It’s important. Exactly. You know, dad and I, we connect now on a on a different level. It’s not exactly the type of level that you want to make a human connection with somebody, but you know, Dad and I now um we we have a little more empathy to what each other’s dealing with than the average person can have that doesn’t have a chronic illness. you know that there’s no way that somebody that does not have a chronic illness can relate.

You know, it it just there’s something else that you’re trying to explain to people. No, this is every day for the rest of my life, right? And they, you know, the average person just can’t compl comprehend that. No, no, I agree with you. I agree with you 100%. The average person can’t comprehend that unless they actually have a family member that’s directly affected and they’re around them a lot. You know, I mean, I have a brother and I love him to death, but I, you know, I I don’t see him very often. So, when he sees me, he only sees me for maybe an hour, you know, during the holidays or something like that. He doesn’t see me 24/7. So, he doesn’t understand everything that I have to go through during a, you know, just a just a day, an average day for me. Um, you know, and and and and that’s hard, you know. That’s hard just to to to to know that you got a brother that is there for you, but he just doesn’t understand it like somebody that’s around you 24/7, you know, like your wife or a husband um or your kids or something like that, right? And and you know, like with my grandkids, they’re they’re four and five right now. There hasn’t been a whole lot of reason to try and explain to them. No,

they just know that grandpa walks with this funny stick and sometimes he’s got the one with wheels on it and Yeah. And you know, he’s got this nifty scooter that we like to run around on. You know, that’s that’s really all they know. But they do know that I can’t go out and play with them in the yard or I don’t go play with them in the yard. Yeah. And I think they’ve already got it figured out though, you know, because they don’t try to get me to do things that I can’t do. Yeah, kids are smart. Still kills me not to be able to do them, but they Yeah, like you say, they’re smart. They figure this stuff out without even being told. Yeah. What did they What did they do with you for um DMTs um after you got diagnosed?

Did you Did uh did they did they put you on one or did you get to choose which one that you wanted to go on? Did they give you a choice? Well, she uh had diagnosed me with primary progressive MS and she says when it comes to treatments, there is only one that is authorized for primary progressive and that is Ocrevus. Yeah. And I said, “Oh, okay, good, great. When can we start?” So that was that was really I didn’t even know how many others there were because it just it sounded to me like this is such a locked shut case that you know there was just no other option. There wasn’t any other possibility of it being anything else. Yeah.

So that was my How’s how’s Ocrevus been treating you? you you tolerating it? Well, I’ve been tolerating it perfectly fine. Um, it never bothered me. I did get a little bit of a crap gap uh a couple of times and uh we decided to try Ocrevus Zunovo and it has been working. I I I do not have the crap gap happening now with Ocrevus Zunovo. That’s been uh really really nice not having a month or so where you can’t do anything because you just hurt so bad. Yeah, I hear I hear a lot of people talk about that crap gap. I’ve never been on Ocrevus. I’ve never been on a DMT where I I experienced that. Um but I I mean it’s got to be awful. I can’t imagine going a month before and you know what the reason is. You know why your body’s jonesing for it, but you can’t get it. You got to wait until Yeah. I I couldn’t even imagine having to go through that.

Yeah. Your immune system is starting to ramp itself back on again. And so now you’ve got a month, month and a half where you feel like you have the flu, you know, that just that that sucked. It did. Yeah. Let me ask you this. Uh um when I started having to use the mobility aids, I know you said your your grandkids say you walk around with a stick and sometimes it has wheels on it. Did you struggle with that? I know I did. I was in my 40s when I started having to use a cane and I was so damn embarrassed and I struggled with that mentally. Did you struggle with that, too? Um, no, not really. Uh because over the years I would have times when I had a knee that bothered me um in my 20s then and I was using this old steel cane that we had uh just so I could get around the farm.

And so I was doing chores with a cane and I would go into town, go into the elevator, um the bar for an evening, go to have a burger and a beer or something. And well, I had the cane with me because I couldn’t walk without it. So I’d kind of gotten over my phobia about it by before I really needed to use it. I get and my folks both needed a cane by that time. And so, um, I was making canes, custom canes for them. Um, did a couple of unique ones that, um, they they kind of started a new hobby for them, trying all these new nifty, uh, custom ordered canes. And, uh, I I started having a new hobby for myself, making some canes, too. So, that’s awesome. made one that looked like a toadstool for my mother and and it’s made with a sunflower stock for the shaft. That’s awesome.

And Yeah. And I made one that out of an old 40s Dodge Ram uh hood ornament. That’s the handle on the on the cane for my dad. Yeah. Dad’s a big Dodge pickup fan. So he he got a cane, made one. That’s awesome. So, let me ask you this. Um, when when now that like you’re basically you got primary progressive and um um you know, you’re you’re a couple years older than me. We’re not at retirement age and you know, I’m I can’t work anymore. And and how do you what do you do to like occupy your mind? um just to like you know to to give you um an interest in something because you can’t go out and do the traditional work that you used to do.

No. And I I realize I can’t and I’ve been really trying to focus on keeping busy with whatever I can uh so that I don’t think about it. Uh I loved the industry that I was in. ag irrigation. So that meant I got to work on giant machines, you know,quarter-mile long, half mile long and and irrigation engines and high voltage electricity. I got to play with all the fun stuff, you know. Yeah. And I, you know, it was always the hero or zero type mentality. So, you know, I I had to be the hero. I was not going to be the zero out of work. And it it was a lot more difficult than I even expected it to be. Um it I may not have shown it with family so much, but I my therapist did definitely know how difficult it was. Um I don’t know what I would have done if I hadn’t had therapy.

And so some of what kept me busy and keep my mind off of it was what we had talked about for the week. And you know, I wasn’t given tasks or anything. I haven’t been given tasks or anything, but I used the time we did talk to uh further my mind when I got home. I’ I’d read magazines like Psychology Today and things like that. And uh also I’ve got enough house projects here that needed to be done, house repairs. And I’ve got an old antique car and a classic car. It’s a 78 Corvette. Nice. And the shop. So I can I I’m in the process putting a new engine and a 5-speed transmission in it. So you know, I’ve got things that I can do that keep me active. Right. The Corvette’s going to take me a lot longer to get done because I can only do about two hours of it in a day, right? And uh and I’m done. I And if I push past that two hours and go three or four, I won’t be back out there for a week. Yeah. So, you know, and I think that that has been the hardest thing for me to adjust. And you know, now that I’m in in my mid-50s

and all that is just knowing how to slow down, you know, cuz we were we were so used to just going 100 miles an hour all day long and then when it when it does come to an end and you can’t do it anymore, that’s the part that really messes with you in my it messed with me in my head, you know, cuz I I kind of lost my identity, you know. I’m I I was Brian, the guy that worked in a prison that that uh you know that that that coached football and he he was never he never stopped. And when it stopped that was a hard part for me to accept and to deal with the mental that mental part of it. It is um I will say the the uh cognitive end of it has been the most difficult for me. Um, that was the part that got me in therapy to begin with before I knew I had MS. Uh, I was having some behavioral issues.

I I would I would fly off the handle at the drop of a bat. Yeah. And it was getting worse and I did not know why. And so I was in talking to therapy and we’re, you know, we made some inroads into it, but it wasn’t the greatest. And then finally I went and approached my doctor and said, “I need to be on antidepressants or something because I I’m acting this way.” And that’s when she asked me that question, you know, would you be willing to do an MRI? Yeah. And and that’s what really was the one that that tripped it. Um, but the uh reason that I was really worrying was because of what was happening with my business. I was making mistakes.

Yeah. Management mistakes and they were they were not I was not able to cover them up and you know make them work anyway. Yeah. and uh I didn’t want to I didn’t sure didn’t sure as heck didn’t want to lose my business. Um, so you know, I tried to get ahead of it and I did I was able to get ahead of it and then then uh after being diagnosed um he was talking with my stepson and or not stepson my son-in-law and and my wife one day and and uh the subject had come up of what I was going to do with the business. We were talking about having an auction auction off all the inventory and trying to figure out somebody that would buy buy the business itself.

And uh that’s when my my son-in-law said he would be interested. So we started making a a deal. It still took over two years to get it done. Yeah. But you know I think it’s worked out best for everybody. I mean, it’s awesome. It’s awesome that you had that. It’s awesome that you had it that way, you know, because a lot of people that don’t, you know, that that didn’t have that bridge to to kind of hand it off to, they just lose everything, you know. I I mean, I hear that all the time. And I and thank God it’s it’s kind of still there. It’s just it’s not yours anymore. And that that’s that that’s the hard part right now. And and everybody knows that I was the one that started it. And it was to the point I wasn’t going to be able to hide my physical disability from the customers anymore. Yeah. It that part had come on decades before. Um at this point now we’re looking at over 40 years and but it had gotten worse in that last couple of years. And it got to the point where I couldn’t just act in a different way and made my walking look normal.

Yeah. Um it it wasn’t working anymore and I was losing my uh I I never used to have a fear of heights at all and I was losing that I was starting to be unsteady on my feet. And if you know what I mean, if you’re unsteady or uncertain, you don’t have any business going to height. Yeah. And even though nothing we got would have gone over 40 ft high, it’s still 40 ft. Yeah. You know, right? I get it. I I couldn’t do that. I was developing muscle weakness. Um, I was still strong, but I could be pulling wrenches hard and all of a sudden it just lose it.

Yeah. Uh, the pain had shoot down my arm and I couldn’t couldn’t handle it. It originate up in my neck and radiate all the way out. I get it. And you know, when you’re when you have that and you’re in a physical job, it’s pretty hard to do that. when that’s one of the two jobs that I’ve done at at uh any length of time that I would become good at uh since I was 18 years old. There’s not a whole lot else out there for a guy that’s in his mid-50s. Exactly. Right. I know. And especially not one that people will hire you for when you have a chronic illness that you cannot hide just to get through an interview. Exactly. I know. You know, and this this is a big big part of what why I started doing this podcast, Jeff, is, you know, I I lost my ability to work. I was let go from a hospital system because they had an elevator that didn’t work. And I’m sitting here going, “Wait a minute, man. I could still work, but you’re not letting me come into the office because of your elevator.” And I just got tired of the system. I’m like, “You know what? I’m done. I’m done.” Because it’s stacked up against us. I mean, they got these ADA laws in in place, but they don’t protect us. They don’t protect us

at all. No, they don’t. There there is absolutely nothing to stop employers from firing me just because they have MS or nothing that keeps them from not hiring me. you know, no, they they just they take your application as soon as you leave the door and they put it in a round circular file. Yep. And you know, it’s it’s not fair, but it is what we got to deal with. And you know, I’m hoping that just talk I’m hoping that just talking about this like just just wakes people up that this [expletive] goes on. I mean, this is real. This is real life. It’s not I mean, the system’s broke. It needs fixed. And, you know, just hopefully talking about it, somebody will wake up and and and do something about it, right? That’s I hope the same. And I am one that I’m not uh one to hold my peace when I see or hear an injustice, you know. Uh, it’s like if I see somebody making comment to the person that pulled into a handicap stall and got out of the car and walked,

well, what’s the person supposed to do? Get out and struggle with a wheelchair. Maybe they need a wheelchair occasionally. They’re going to go in and use a scooter in the store, right? But they’re going to walk there. That doesn’t mean they’re not handicapped, you know? And and if somebody gives that person a hard time, I will educate that person as to why and they usually they don’t even stick around for rebuttal. Oh no. Yeah. I’ve got into it with people too and for similar situations like that. I mean it’s frustrating, you know, and especially when you’re young, you know. I mean, now I’m 56 and I I don’t get that much flack now, but when I was younger, when I was in my 30s, and if I had a I had a handicap placard, if I parked in a handicap spot, people would look at me like, “What the [expletive] are you doing parking in a handicap spot?” Yeah. You know, and I would just, you know, I I’ve gotten into it, you know, it it that’s part of the life that we have to live. It’s been It’s frustrating as hell. It’s [expletive] And And the other day, my wife and I went shopping. We went to Sam’s Club. And here I am running around on a scooter with the basket on the front. This way I can go shopping with my wife. We can find what we need and we don’t have to have a shopping cart. I’ve got

it right here. And uh I don’t know probably three four times while I went around through the store. It was fairly busy but wasn’t packed. And about three or four times there was people that made that sneering look. you know, just kind of you could hear their eyesight or their eye roll. Yeah. You know, it’s without them making a sound and you you just want to grab people by the throat sometimes and say, “Listen, here, take some of this pain, right?” Yeah. here. Take take take my body for one hour and and just live in it for one hour and and and I’ll guarantee you you’ll you’ll understand a hell of a lot more than since you can’t actually swog with me. I’ll just let you know what it feels like or or or you can experience it for a couple hours, man. You know. Right. Right. Jeff, man, is there anything else that you want to tell anybody uh before I start wrapping it up? Just uh I mean, I love everything that you’re about, dude. I I mean, you haven’t been diagnosed long, but you get it, man. You you’ve been doing this for

a long time. You just been fighting through life. Um you’ve dealt with, you know, you you’ve kicked alcohol to the side uh over this. Um I mean, you’re just a badass, dude. Is is there anything else that you want to tell anybody that is fighting this fight and just trying to figure [expletive] out? You know, I know that there’s a lot of people, different people. I mean, we’re all walks of life and I have a lot of friends from all over the United States that I have made and other countries in the MS community. Doesn’t matter how different our backgrounds are or anything. This disease is the common denominator. This is the the great ego leveler. And you know, I have had the conversation with people about uh my sobriety and that I’m using many mostly the same tools uh mental tools that I used for getting sober for dealing with MS of coming to a sense of peace with it and acceptance. Um because I could just stay pissed off

at this disease and it doesn’t do anybody any good and it doesn’t do me any good. Um all I am is pissed off and still hurt and I’m still I’m still sick. And uh uh after I got sober in 2022, I did not or in 2004, I met um you know, I don’t want to go back to that u that mindset I had before. And so here I am dealing with this chronic illness and I use the same tools. It’s acceptance. I had to teach myself as a way to accept it and then learn to live with it, you know, and that meant finding new ways of doing things. Um, I’m already getting the new crowd just because of this. You know, you wind up meeting all sorts of people you never knew you needed to know. Absolutely. And Yeah. Yeah.

Um, and I found out that doesn’t matter how much I think I can handle, um, trying to work a steady job and take care of this at the same time with the cognitive decline that I had. Yeah. Um, it it would not happen. It would not happen. I get it. Jeff, man, I really want to thank you again for uh joining me today, man. I just loved uh the conversation, man. It was this was a great conversation. We talked a lot about a lot a lot about a a lot of different things. And um you know, I hope that this helps somebody out there that’s listening to us. Uh I’m going to get going. Don’t forget to hit the subscribe button and share us out.

We want to be understood and the best way to understand us is to listen to us talk. Y’all have a good day. Until the next episode, I am out. If you like this kind of content, please like, share, follow, and subscribe.]