Michigan Hockey’s Rivalry Wake-Up Call + Interview with Pat Micheletti Former NHL Player & Analyst

[Michigan hockey fans, it’s time for the Maize and Blue Breakaway podcast with your host Billy Jaffe. Well, after having a really impressive start to the season, numerous big non-conference wins for the Michigan Wolverines hockey team. They head to Ohio State for the very I don’t know about very rare, but the rare Saturday Sunday series instead of Friday Saturday. I’m sure that throws it threw me off a little bit and I knew about it, right? It just does. But the Saturday Sunday series in Columbus and it sees the Wolverines split and after a very poor Saturday night loss, they rebounded to well maybe scrambled fellas is the better word to get the the split on Sunday. as we welcome you in to the Maize and Blue Breakaway, a Michigan hockey podcast along with Shuy and Nolan.

I’m Billy and the Wolverines. I don’t know. Listen, I got to imagine there’s been there’s just a natural progression let down. You hate to admit it, I guess, as a player, but you could and we see it at the NHL because there’s so many games all the times, fellas, but you go to a hostile environment, but not the most rockous place to begin with, right? And yet, you need to have that energy. You got to amp it up. And the Wolverines just didn’t do it on Saturday. We’re going to get to that. We’re going to talk about how they rebounded Sunday.

But first of all, I’m going to say welcome in. Great to see you guys. And how was your guys’ Halloween? You guys got the little ones. So you’ve got real Halloween. I have adult Halloween now with the older kids. I’ll start with you, Chewy. How you doing, bud? You know, I’m doing great, Billy. Good to be back here on the Maize and Blue Breakaway with you. Great Halloween over here. I had the two little ones, a strawberry and a blueberry. And fortunately, both sets of grandparents around, so dad was able to have a couple pops and enjoy the festivities. So all good.

Looking forward to chatting some Michigan hockey with you, Jens. A strawberry and a blueberry. That’s I like that. That’s That’s good. You know, healthy as well. What about you, Nolan? How was yours with the with the youngans? The Halloween was great. It was my daughter’s first time walking. So, she made it to about seven houses in 30. but did a great job. Walked every step of the way and collected about 10 pieces of candy, which I’ve gone through about six or seven of those already. So, but she had a great time. And it was good to see her out all dressed up. She’s dressed up as a fairy.

She’s really into the fairies and princesses and all that. So that means that I was a mushroom. Me and my wife had a little mushroom hat on and we’re chasing her around. But no, it was a great time. I’m glad that she had fun. but yeah, really fun weekend. I don’t wish this upon you, but you will experience it soon enough when they’re really old enough to do their thing and then they scarf down more candy than they fess up to. And so then the inevitable, it’s like the extra slice of birthday cake, right? You need the stomach ache that comes with it afterwards.

You guys will get that at one point in a couple of Halloweens coming up. But that’s what every child and every parent needs to go through. And I’m assuming eventually one if not all of them will be dressed up as a Michigan hockey player at some point. Or if not a hockey player, a football player, a some type of player or whatever. as I know you guys are very much proud of that. All right. it was fun. Like I said, mine was more of an adult one. We go to a party where there were a bunch of little kids.

I’m just laughing looking at them while I’m enjoying not having any responsibility whatsoever. on the night except for having a beer and relaxing. not a lot of relax, actually maybe too much relaxing for the Wolverines on Saturday night. Shu, I’ll start with you. you’re I it don’t it sounds I don’t I about negative. I’m not being that. But was it inevitable? Is it tolerable? I don’t think it is, but I’ll let you answer. You’re that you go in after going in off these highs against Denver, against Western, and you go into a building that’s real big, has 3,500 people or so in it, there’s not a ton of atmosphere.

Is it kind of expected or is it kind of unacceptable what ended up happening Saturday night? A game that the Wolverines lost 5-2, albeit two empty net goals, but they never found their game. And to their credit, the Ohio State Buckeyes were much better at getting to their game than the Wolverines were. Well, look, I don’t think we expected the series that we got in a lot of different ways, right? I mean, this was a neck-and-neck match throughout. I mean, across both games. So, got to give a lot of credit to Ohio State.

They came out, they understood the assignment of the number one team in the nation coming into your building. It’s go time. And you know, I think for Michigan, you don’t want to read too much into this, right? I mean, you’re not going to sit and analyze this tape second by second and harp on this or revisit it over and over, but it’s something of a wakeup call and I think a good one at this point. I mean, we got this bye week coming up, this early bye week, and, you know, just for the team to take a little refresher and get that sort of wakeup call that this is Big Ten hockey. there are going to be no games off throughout this regular season of the Big Ten play.

Every team now, I mean, what, we got three of the top five ranked teams in the nation in that Big Ten. So, I think it’s just that wakeup call of it’s almost a whole new season when you kind of get out of that regular non-conference play and get into the Big Ten. So, you know, you said it. I mean, just to get into the games, right? I mean, you come out a little slow, not much happens in that first period, give up that power play goal in the second, and then Ohio State gets up two nothing.

And just like that, you’re kind of playing from behind, getting out of your habits a little bit. And like you said, I mean, the Michigan offense just never got going like we’ve been accustomed to. And it just wasn’t good enough, especially on that Saturday night, game one of the series. Yeah. And just to kind of I mean, go off that, Chewy. Like great points. I think it’s I don’t mind having a little bit of adversity in the first half. I think we’ve seen a lot of teams that even that we were on shoe where it’s like we come out we’re a top five team in the country like for the first month or two like and then you kind of see the dip in the fall off like the second half is what we’re really building towards. so I don’t mind a little bit of adversity here especially in the first weekend like you said a wakeup call I think is the right word for it.

You know that Coach Naurato is going to have this guys ready to rock on Sunday and it really was like a 3-1 game. and they got a couple empty netters at the end. So that’s something to keep in mind, too. So that it wasn’t quite the score disparity that the scoreboard showed. At the same time, a lot of learning opportunities, if you want to call them that. And I’d certainly prefer to be on the Saturday or the first game of a of a back-to-back than maybe them come out beat up on OSU on the Saturday and then kind of lay an egg on Sunday.

So I think they did a good job responding on Sunday. I think same thing, it was a lot closer of a game than it showed and Michigan had to kind of scramble at the very end on Sunday, which we’ll get to. But on the whole, I think Saturday left a lot to be desired. But now you finally got some tape. And also keep in mind, Michigan’s always going to get their opponent’s best game, especially as a number one team in the country. So, it’s one of those games you can turn the page on and just focus on the next one. And I think that’s exactly what Michigan did.

Michigan was definitely guilty of too many turnovers in that game. That’s a mental thing. And again, you have to acknowledge the opponent. Ohio State. I think they were playing a very robust, I’ll call it a 113, whatever you want to term it, a deep one 122, a one3, whatever. They had three guys back in the neutral zone all the freaking time. I mean, they were not looking to give up or to allow Michigan to get their transition game going. They didn’t want to give up those opportunities. I think Ohio State understood that their strength was going to be their structure, right?

They don’t have as much. got a couple of guys, the Jardine kid, I thought was impressive. Carfagna, I thought he played hard, but they don’t have the overall high-end talent. They’re not a bad team, though. They’re just in inconsistent. That’s the word that I keep hearing about Ohio State. You could see it in their game, but they worked their butts off. And again though, they were just they weren’t sitting back boring, but they made sure puck was lost going into the offensive zone. They were third guy back. I mean, back, back, back. And as a forward, you know, you got to work your way through it.

As a defenseman, sometimes you get lulled into, right, Nolan, where you think, oh, I can make a play getting the puck off the ice long and then it’s intercepted and then they transition back against you there. So, it can be a frustrating system. and I’ll start with you, Nolan. That type of system to play against. Oh, I mean, that’s exactly what I would do. If I saw and Hayes and this lineup that Michigan’s putting on the ice, I’d go, “Yeah, let’s just kind of let them make mistakes. Let them try to do a little bit too much.” So they did exactly and like you said it’s frustrating as hell.

It’s you Michigan’s so used to playing with so much with pace and tempo and puck possession and this really forces Michigan to dump pucks in and go and retrieve and play that gritty style that maybe their top six doesn’t necessarily want to do. But at the end of the day Michigan found a way to break through on Sunday. But for sure it’s it’s frustrating because they’re such a skilled group. They enjoy playing with the puck. They enjoy playing the style. Again, this is such a great opportunity for them to learn how to kind of face some of these teams who are going to throw something abnormal at them, learn how to adapt to it because now when it’s February and March, you’re you’ve seen it, you know how to do it, you know how to deal with it, and you can you can kind of attack it in a better way.

And Shuy, they kind of attacked it a little better late in the second period against Ohio State. started to perhaps get used to it just a little bit more and not be maybe as frustrating. Again, turnovers early in the game, numerous turnovers leading to opportunities and to goals from the Wolverines to the Buckeyes, but they learned a little bit. Again, it wasn’t pretty though. But they it I’ll find the positive. They at least started to get some chances. Well, I’m glad you returned to the turnovers because I mean that was a highlight big note that I had on my board as well.

I mean far too many of them, right? And there’s a difference between a turnover, you know, behind the opponent’s net and at the blue lines, right? I mean, I’m coming at it from kind of the winger perspective. Those blue lines are your bread and butter. I mean, that’s where you’re going to find play time or end up on the bench, right? I mean, those are critical areas. A key part of the winger’s job is getting the puck out of the zone in the defensive end and then getting it in on the other side, right?

I mean, everybody wants to carry that puck in, have the possession, you know, get the setup play, make something happen off the rush, but it’s not a bad play sometimes just dump it in, especially when you’re getting that you know, sort of 131 heavy neutral zone pressure from your opponent. So, I think you made the good point. I mean, they did start to break through, right? Kind of tighten things up, but when you’re playing from behind, you know, more or less the whole game like they were on Saturday, that’s that’s kind of just the result, right? I mean, there’s a couple breakdowns here and there.

To talk about the goals a little bit, I mean, of course, credit to Ohio State. They they did what they needed to do. But a couple that I think Jack Ivankovic is probably looking at saying I wouldn’t mind getting that one back, right? I mean, this is a guy who when he sees it, he’s usually going to stop it. The one through the wickets and then another one that, you know, he’s got full eyes on that he’s he’s you know, part of this team as well, thinking I can do better. And fortunately for Michigan, you know, they did kind of turn things around, but bang on.

I mean, far too many turnovers on Saturday, that first game of the series. And you know, that’s how you end up with two-on-ones against too many scoring chances and you know, the puck’s in the back of your net. So, you know, again, it is what it is. Kind of flushing this one for Michigan. Credit to Ohio State, but got to be better for these Big Ten matches that are upcoming on the calendar here. I was just thinking about because they’re going into a bye. I also don’t hate the fact that there’s maybe a little bit of a sour taste in their mouth going into a bye.

Instead of maybe squeezing out a couple wins, they’re like, “Ah, we got a sweep. You know what? let’s just go and we can kind of hang out this week and you know we’ll go out and compete a little bit. But then I kind of like that it gives a little bit of a chip on their shoulder going into a bye- to keep improving. Gives them some tape to watch some opportunities to get out there and improve on a couple things and then come back refreshed after the bye week and that’s it, right? I mean you’re not going to go undefeated on the season.

It wasn’t going to be, you know, one of these 32 and0 I don’t know off the top of my head how many games they play but I couldn’t agree more with that. N right? I mean you head into the bye. you’re not the number one undefeated team anymore and you got some things to work on and you know some of that extra you know juice whatever you want to call it to get things going. So expect them to come out of this good and not a total loss on the weekend which I’ll turn it back over to get into the details of the other parts of the game. Yeah.

No, it wasn’t. And we’re going to get to it. And you know, again, I’m early on starting here asking about unaccept that it’s it’s kind of hyperbolic, if that’s even the right term. A little extreme, but because it is a long season, we know what the endgame is here, right? I mean, we know that the endgame is Big Ten champion, NCAA championship. It’s a long road to get there, but you have to go through all this stuff. Let me just throw out a few numbers from the game and a couple of other things as well. Well, just statistically, 32-28 were the shots overall in the game.

Ohio State and Saturday night, they had they fired a few more pucks to the net than Michigan. 14 each in the second period. The second period did kind of open up a bit, but to me, Ohio State had the better energy overall in the game. I just don’t think Michigan matched it. Ohio State goes up two nothing. Schifsky scores to make it 2-1. At the end of two, then Sascha Boumedienne, kid who played at BEu, first round pick of the Winnipeg Jets, transfers to Ohio State. There’s a bit of a not exodus, but a couple of big names left. Beu Boumedienne being one of them. He’s playing with purpose.

He’s a good power play defenseman. Skates well, he scores a goal. He makes it three to one. Cole McKenna, who I thought I noticed him this weekend. I didn’t. And maybe it was the line tweaks that allowed for that, too. He ends up getting his sixth of the season, an extra attacker out there, but then two empty net goals by Ohio State that leads to the final five-2. some, you know, things that I just found interesting going in. Hayes and Jayden Perron play together, but Moldenhauer bumps with them. Horcoff and that game on Saturday night plays with McKini and Spence. He took a penalty in that game, too.

That led to a different line for him to start in the Sunday game. Kieran Dervin plays his first game of the season. Aiden Park gets back in. So, we saw some lineup changes Nolan that you know, you don’t always know the health of players and everything, but I also I found him a bit interesting that especially, you know, I think Naurato’s just trying to get everybody involved probably as well to keep everybody going. Yeah, for sure. And I think a game like that where it’s a bit of a letown spot is such a great opportunity to pop some other guys in.

I mean, Aiden Park, he’s been a guy that brought so much like kind of that grit to the lineup last year. So he’s a great guy to bring back in. But now you’re kind of auditioning guys because once the second half starts like if someone goes down you’re in the home stretch guy guys need to know how to step in and immediately contribute. so this is such a great opportunity. I mean Shuy I think we both kind of been in that situation but I know for you like you were always kind of battling to kind of stay in the lineup and then also like when you were putting an opportunity to like succeed you had to be like ready to rock.

Yeah. And you got to say on that point, I mean, good problems for this coaching staff to have, but I mean, these are tough decisions, right? I mean, you got a guy like Aiden Park, great to season. I mean, this guy’s a NHL draft pick who was you know, fighting to crack this lineup. So, you know, you do have that competition. I mean, that’s what makes practice so important each and every day. But, not an easy job for this coaching staff just to get everybody involved, make them feel involved, and get everyone kind of part of this team. But, I think you picked up on it, Billy.

And one thing I do love about this coaching staff, coach Norado in particular, is he’s not afraid to make those in-game adjustments, kind of move some things around. If he sees a guy who’s going, maybe a guy who’s not, or just reading that game flow is is so much cuz you go in, I mean, right, there’s five days of the week, you’re thinking constantly about that puck dropping on Friday. You get your game plan all lined up, think it’s foolproof, and then you get hit in the mouth and everything needs to change. So, credit to that coaching staff for doing that, making those adjustments even game to game.

Ended up paying off with that big overtime win. But to the point, Nolan, I mean, a lot of competition among these guys, and don’t envy some of these tough conversations and tough decisions that the coaches need to make and have with the players. Well, it’s Yeah, it’s everyone’s got to play until they get punched in the face. Exactly. Right. It’s like and I but I do like that like you talk about Horcoff a little bit. It’s like, hey, he’s doing some things out there, maybe not consistently contributing on the offense, maybe taking some undisciplined penalties or what have you, but there’s so much depth on this team that I think it puts Nar in such a good position to be like he’s not it’s not like other teams where like the big dogs the big dogs’s got to eat here, too.

But there’s so many other guys around where you can kind of sit down a guy like Horcoff and be like, “Hey, you’re going to now be on the third line, fourth line for the rest of this game. We need to see more out of you.” And I think the culture that’s been created there, like guys aren’t going to take that personally. They’re going to see it as a challenge and they’re going to see everyone else around them working. And I think that’s such a great position for Nar to be in. and I think a guy like Orson to come back and be ready to rock even better than ever.

Yeah. I mean, to your point starting the game on Sunday night, he was with Dervin and Hurlbert on the fourth line. And so it’s just accountability is so important for any team to be successful. It’s rare that a team has a successful run when there are perceived divisions of accountability if that you know if that’s the right way to say it because you know of course stars usually get away with more but everybody can see what’s going on and so the coach that is constantly communicating and to me coach communication is the most important thing and I think Naurato has been very good about it you know and I’ve talked to him about that and we discussed it on one of our previous Maze and Blue Breakaways about how he’s talking with the guys regularly, the guys that are not just, you know, the guys getting sat, but the guys that are in the lineup too about, hey, be aware that we need more of this or more of that, that type of thing in a good positive way.

But the guys know the room, the players know the room, so to speak. And if guys are getting away with stuff and it ain’t cool, you know what I mean? That permeates through a team. And that doesn’t lead to fostering the kind of all for one, one for all attitude, Cheuy, that this team and or a great team needs. Couldn’t agree more with all of that, right? I mean, you don’t want to have any quote unquote untouchables where, you know, one guy’s looking at that like, well, if I did that, I’d be out of the lineup for three games, right?

I mean, there’s there’s consequences, there’s accountability up and down the lineup. And maybe, I mean, transitioning to us in a into a related point, but, you know, we might want to see more from these down the lineup guys. We get a five-point game out of Michael Hage on Sunday there. Jayden Perron, you know, carrying a lot of water. I kind of look at Friday going. You can’t expect Jayden Perron and Michael Hage to get three, four points every single game, right? I mean, other teams are aware. So, you wouldn’t mind seeing a little more step up across the lineup, right?

I mean, this applies to everybody, you know, whether the guys that are expected to score or not score. You got to do something. Got to make yourself known out there. You don’t want any passengers, right? I mean, you got what 19 slots to fill per lineup, per game. So, it just reinforces the message to everybody. I mean, it’s it’s every shift. It’s every play that you got to be ready to go. And I think it’s a good message for the team that everybody’s held to that similar standard. Well, on Sunday, we want to transition into Sunday a little bit. Yeah.

Like you saw right off the bat like OSU crashing the net. Like I think a couple times the net was knocked off the moorings. Ivankovic’s back there kind of fighting for his life a little bit. you saw the physicality and that intensity like right off the puck drop. But to your point, Shu, one thing that I loved about last year’s team was you the reliability of that third line with like Ernesty Draper and I think it was usually Spencer Park on that line. And that’s kind of an identity that I’m looking to see out of this year’s team.

I think that’s something that Garrett Schifsky brings a lot and I meant to bring him up last week when we were talking about the Western game when they scored those two goals kind of bang. I noticed Schifsky out there like the three shifts kind of leading up to that and he was in on the forecheck getting physical getting a guy’s face creating offense just being a pest and I think he’s a guy who’s really going to have to kind of lead that middle six and then you look at like Sema you talk about Park you kind of go up and down the lineup here but some of their bigger bodies even if it’s Horcoff if the puck’s not going in creating that identity in your middle to bottom six nine whatever you want to call it to create that physical identity and then also depth scoring.

I think one thing that stood out to me was Hurlbert getting that getting that goal and it looked a lot like he had a bit of a monkey off the bat because he’s a guy who’s a first round pick coming in. Someone who I’m sure expects a lot out of himself, a guy who’s like a hometown draft pick with the Red Wings being right here. So, I think that was a really good sign for Michigan to see a guy who’s probably going to be in your middle six. I mean, his upside on this team is probably a second line player, but we’ll probably hover between that second and third line. if we can get hit that a guy like that going, like that’s kind of exactly what Michigan’s looking for.

So, I think you’re seeing some signs of it, but I really want to see that like a third, fourth line really establish itself as kind of being that mean big physical line that we expect from these Michigan teams. Well, that takes special players because more and more we’re seeing less and less of that, right, Nolan? It’s, you know, everybody has great toe drags and everybody has worked at their skills coaches 10 hours a week before they get to a school like Michigan and they all think that everybody wants to score and that just isn’t how it’s always going to be. but if they can get an identity line, you know, the grind line, whatever you want to call it, there’s all they all have nicknames, right?

That will make a big difference. Your good point. I know Malcolm Spence played up the lineup, but he had two goals on Saturday. He had the extra attacker goal right at the end of the game and that was huge for the team. Evan Valenti. Valenti gets a chance to bump up to play with the Heline in this game, too. So, you’re seeing the shuffling there, right? You start getting some depth, some guys coming through. Couple of other things that stood out to me about the numbers wise from Sunday’s games. McKenna was 16 of 20 in the faceoff circle.

Love seeing stuff like that. like seeing I mean look you can’t numbers-wise you can’t look past obviously Hayes putting up five points like oh nobody else he was dominant given the opportunity out there he just was pon had three assists overall I just thought it became a special teams game on Sunday you know Ohio State scored a power play goal Michigan responded with two in the second period to make it 2-1 heading into the third then Ohio State scores a power play. Hayes scores the very rare even strength goal to halfway through the period. Then you get a short-handed goal. Another one. Yes. That just drives coaches crazy.

Unless your power play’s running at like a 60% clip. You can’t be doing that. But yeah, that stood out to me as well. But you can’t make moves with the puck there. You know, you can’t you can’t do that. All right. So then, so listen, extra attacker goal. You pull the goalie. Spence scores at the 1848 mark. It was really beautiful movement. H and P with the assists. And then it’s a three-on-three overtime. And Evan Valenti scores 417. And I enjoyed overtime. I did. I thought that was a fun go at it. 3227 the shots in favor of Michigan in this game on Sunday night. the power play two for four and two for Michigan and two for three for the Buckeyes.

So those are some numbers from that. I think that the Wolverines, we saw them celebrate. Obviously, the bus ride home going to be a lot nicer, a lot quicker given that needed victory. Yes. To get off of that Saturday game. But just to repeat whatever I think it was you, Shuy said, both you guys said, this does provide a good bye week kind of lesson, back of the mind stuff. Hey, we went in the bye week. We’re going to get a little rest, but we got a lot of good stuff to work on here, fellas. Yeah, I think that’s absolutely bang on, right?

I mean, you don’t you don’t sing a song at the end of the weekend like they do after the sweep like they have been each time this year, which has been awesome. But, I mean, don’t forget the words to that song, right? I mean, they’re going to be other opportunities to go out there, get those sweeps, the two wins that you’re looking for game in game out. And look, I mean, some good things, right? I mean, we talk about some of these individual efforts, right? I don’t know if they give out a hard head or what at the end of the game, but a couple different candidates, right?

I mean, Hayes, Malcolm Spence, if if any of our listeners want to check out episode one where I was mentioning him being my breakout player of the year, right? He’s he’s off to a nice start here, too. Two huge goals in this one. So, you know, some things to build on as there always is. I mean, it’s November right now. They want to have their best foot forward come March. So, liking what you see from the Wolverines, right? I mean, bury the tape and put your best foot forward come come this bye-week and get things going here again cuz a lot of tough Big Ten matchups coming up and you know, the meat of the season is still well out there.

That’s the cardiac kids right now, Billy. Shoot. It’s like you don’t want to keep winning games this way. You’ll take them as you can as you can get them, but I’m sure Coach Naurato prefer to have a little bit of a buffer on some of these some of these victories. but for sure, it’s you’re thrilled with where you’re at. I think you’re putting yourself in a perfect position to learn from some of your mistakes. And yeah, when your leading scorers got 20 points in 10 games, you’re in pretty good shape.

Like these guys, I mean, like Shuy, I don’t remember like when was the last time I remember going to like a junior B development camp where it’s like a pay-to-play kind of thing and you go out there and I think I was like 16 playing junior A. I was like just a body out there. and that was like the last time when I remember being on the ice going like, I can do whatever I want out here. And Michael Hage did that in an NCAA game in overtime. He was skating around. I’m like, this is insane.

He could have scored like four or five goals just in that one shift and it ends up hit hitting Valenti in the back door. Like, it was just mental. But I’m like, what’s that like to have the game feel so simple and to know you’re the best player on the ice? I’m like, I haven’t done that since I was Yeah. 15 or 16 years old. different. I mean, the puck, right, felt like it always wanted to just get away from me. quite the opposite with Michael Hage. I mean, that thing is his friend. And I you mentioned that last goal, right? I mean, what a pass on the backhand.

Just the wherewithal to not throw it on net or, you know, fumble effort around like I might have done. So, great stuff from Hayes. Love to see that from Valenti. And, you know, like you said, good to good to ride the bus home with that overtime win rather than any other outcome. So, good stuff from these guys as always. Get some rest this week. Get healthy. If anybody’s dinged up, we know somebody is, if not somebody’s plural are right now, just the way it happens. And then, November 13th and 14th, Penn State, Penn State comes to town. So, you got a week off.

I got a hunch the guys will be able to find some fun stuff to do. I got a hunch over the weekend. Like, they’re maybe just, you know, like a football game to be involved with or something like that. So, it’s a fun week for the guys. a good week to reset and get ready. So, they’re in the throes of it now of the the Big Ten season and great catching up with you guys. A lot of fun and I appreciate all your insights on this one and let’s get through this weekend.

We won’t have much to talk about next week. but we’ll we’ll we’ll figure something out here is the Michigan Wolverines again go into the bye week with a split against Ohio State. They’re now 81 and 0 and they’re going to take a little bit time off. we’re going to have Pat Micheletti coming up from the Big Ten network to do a big preview of the Big Ten as well. We’ve seen Ohio State, but we haven’t seen others. So, it’ll be great to catch up with Pat Nolan Shuy. Fantastic stuff, guys. Thanks as always for joining. Appreciate it, fellas. Go Blue. Go Blue. Always good stuff, John. All right.

And as mentioned when I was talking with the other guys, here he is. Pat Micheletti, guy I’ve known for a long time. hockey extraordinaire, especially at University of Minnesota. played some pro afterwards before a knee injury if I remember correctly is what knocked you out from a long pro career. Know your brother Joe very well. Worked with him for a long time. It is fantastic to have you here. And the reason we have you here is because you’re a college hockey expert, too. You’re with Big Ten Network. You cover a lot of the Minnesota Golden Gopher games. We’re going to get into it.

I wanted to do with the Wolverines having this week off after their split at Ohio State. an opportunity to sit down and chat with you and get your take on just where you see the conference this year. You know, you read things, you see things, you YouTube things and there’s a lot of opinions, but one thing that seems to be pretty clear is that there’s three maybe four, but three teams that are top of the list. Pat, first of all, before we get into that, how the hell are you, buddy? It’s great to see you. Good.

It’s great to see you, Billy. you know, yes, we’ve known each other a long time. Always admired your work and you’re one of the best in the business and so it’s it’s it’s it’s great that we get to do this. So, I’m a ton of fun. I’m I’m honored to be here today. Well, and I know you’re passionate about your hockey and not just the Golden Gophers, but the Big Ten as well. Well, it used to be, listen, we’re going back. You were WCHA, I was CCHA with Michigan. And now it’s the Big Ten, which is obviously where these teams belong and we love it.

So, all right, let’s talk about the big guys at top. And doesn’t mean I don’t want to give attention to the others, but is it three teams really? Is it is it Michigan, Michigan State, and Wisconsin in your opinion that are the odds on? Is that fair or is that not fair? You tell me, Pat. Well, no. Oh, I think it’s really fair. And, you know, we all look at the beginning of the season, we all look and we and we and we take a look at the rosters and we see, you know, wow, right? This team’s got x amount of number one picks.

This team has another slew of number one picks. So you look on paper and you make your observations of going into the season who’s going to be 1, two, and three and four and five and so on and so forth, but ultimately as you know, you have to play the games and this league is so good from top to bottom. Now, I know Notre Dame is going through a transition and, you know, and hopefully they’ll they’ll get that all straightened out, but still a pretty tough out and I think they’ll get things figured out.

But it, you know, the league has gotten so good that, you know, if you don’t come ready to play, I don’t care how many that you have your number one picks or whatever, you’re going to lose. And we see that. And so it’s kind of a gauntlet of getting through this. Now ultimately when I look at Michigan, when I look at Michigan State and I look at Wisconsin and you kind of look at the big picture of, okay, where are these teams going to be in a month or two months and they’re going to be a heck of a lot better than they are now?

And so, yeah, every team is going to have their bumps in the road, but you know, you ultimately look to see where they’re going to end up and how you can see that. And, you know, right now, there’s no question those three teams are the ones that should be talked about. And would you say that they’re all they’re different with how they go about things? You know, you how they’re constructed? is there a significant difference in your eyes how they’re constructed? Yeah. Well, you know, I’ll take Wisconsin, right? And Mike, let’s start with them and Mike Hastings.

His style of hockey has never changed from this the CCHA where he was with Minnesota State and to where he is now with Wisconsin. It’s taking him a couple years to get everybody to buy into what he’s doing. But I tell you what, they are not the most exciting team to watch in college hockey, but they are strong defensively. They’ve got great goaltending and their attention to detail is at the top of the list. Now, you might say, okay, ultimately you have to score goals in this league. And you know, I don’t know if it was an aberration last weekend with the amount of goals that they scored against Notre Dame.

I don’t I didn’t see the series. I don’t know what happened. 16 goals, right? I think it was 16. Yeah, they scored 16 goals. So, boy, my theory there is wrong, right? But I don’t know. They’re coming into Minnesota this weekend and, you know, it’s going to be a little bit different. But it but you know they’re a team that if they can consistently find enough offense, they’re going to be an awfully tough folk. Now you’ve got Michigan. Let’s look at Michigan. And boy oh boy, I mean, where’s their weakness? skill up the wazoo.

Incredibly fun team to watch, great on the back end. they may have the best goaltender in college hockey. And you do not win, you do not win national championships without a goaltender. I don’t care. Ask Denver. because Michigan, you know, a year ago was the better team and lost. And it just that’s just pure anybody watching that game understands that. But, you know, they fell one goal short, right? Mhm. and so, you know, for a team like Michigan, I look at and I think the growth of Brandon Naurato as a coach from what I’ve seen since when he first took over to where he is now, is and it filters down to the team.

You know, they Michigan was a team that and I think they’d be the first to admit it. They were undisciplined. They took dumb penalties that hurt them, you know, and I’ll go back to, you know, like in the Beniers era and Zegras and those guys, right? They were just they weren’t a very disciplined hockey team. Nope. And now they are, you know, now they are a disciplined team. And if they can stay disciplined, I you know, I don’t I don’t know. Eventually, as we go along, Billy, as we as the season moves along, you know, no team is going to go undefeated in college hockey. they’re going to be an awfully tough out.

Now, Michigan State, it baffles me every year that they haven’t been in a frozen four under Adam Nightingale, especially with the goaltender that they had. Mhm. And they’ve never made it and you look at their lineup and their roster and they’re big, they’re strong, they’re skilled. Are they are they the most NHL style team of those three that you’re talking about? 100% they are. I thought Yeah. You know, I in terms of, you know, they’ve got four guys that are 6’5. Yeah. 66. you know, and so they have a nice balance because then, you know, then you go to a guy like Ryker Lee who’s a stone cold sniper, a Cullen Potter kid they brought in from Arizona State, a really, really good player.

So, they’ve got a nice mix of players. You know, I look at their fourth line. I think Tommy Manisto is still on their fourth line. Give me that player any day of the week. because all he does is he doesn’t care about goals, assists, anything. He wants to win and he’s in your pace and he’s and he’s going 100 miles an hour and so you know and they’ve got a number one draft pick for a goaltender now, you know, a new one that’s in and so but it amazes me that they haven’t been able to get over that next step to get to a Frozen Four.

You know, the thing that worries me about them is that they’ve got all these number one draft picks and we forget sometimes how young that they are. Mhm. And you know that when any time and I don’t care what level squirts to pee-weees, pee-weees to ban, there’s always going to be an adjustment period. and you’re playing against older, grizzled guys, guys who have been in the league, know how to play, and these guys, although maybe better players, they still have to learn how to play college hockey, right? And so how quick they make that adjustment is, you know, remains to be seen, but they’re going to be right there.

Adam Nighting Gale’s too too good of a coach not to get to that level. Yeah, they’ve started as we sit and record this amazing blue breakaway this Big Ten preview. They’re they’re 51 and0. They’re they’re coming off just beating North Dakota 5-3 memory serves correct in that in that game. nine is it nine or 10 number one picks? Not that it really matters. It still Yeah, it doesn’t matter. Nine, 10, whatever. Nine, right? Yeah. I mean, it’s just crazy. And the goaltender you’re talking about is Joshua Ravensbergen who is 6’5 himself, a little over 200 lb.

He’s a first round pick of San Jose from last year’s draft and late in the first round. So they go from Trey Augustine to him and in theory, you know, they’re set. U the other question I always have, and this doesn’t just go to Michigan State, it goes to all these teams with these number one picks in there. How invested are they? Are they invested in the year or are they invested in the sweater? And there’s a great point. There’s a big difference, Pat. Oh. Oh, tremendous. I mean, yeah. And you know, if guys are checked in or checked out and so, you know, and that’s what I kind of worry about, you know, even Michigan to a certain degree, although I think their leadership, with Moldenhauer, with H now being older, you know, H didn’t come back.

I mean, he could have signed a contract. he could be in the National Hockey League right now, right? you know, but he came back because he wanted to win. And so I think their older players, I’m a little concerned on the Michigan State side, but on the Michigan side, I would say, you know what, those guys came back for a reason. And and that was to, you know, they have a bitter taste in their mouth from a year ago. And and let’s not forget Michael Hage was hurt in the Frozen Four last year and he barely played because I don’t know what the injury was ankle or something or and you take him out of your lineup.

I mean, you’re taking out, you know, the potential Hobey Baker winner this year, but they still, you know, persevered and got there and all that. but, you know, what if he’s healthy? What if he’s healthy? You know, do they win it last year? So he comes back and you know so I think I think internally and I hope they keep it internally that they’re on a mission to do that this year. You know they don’t have to tell everybody how good they are. They know how good they are. You know and u and they’re deep. They’re real deep. They’re very deep.

And so you know we’ll have to see how it all plays. you mentioned we talked Wisconsin early and Mike Hastings is, you know, I’ve always thoroughly enjoyed my time talking with Mike. I think he’s great. He’s such a wonderful guy. He’s got his team out to a six and0 start in their first couple of weeks of the season. Got some young goalies. they’ve split so far. The team has got over a 95 955 save percentage to be exact. Logan Hensler back Ottawa draft pick. He’s leading the way along with the Russian kid Vasili Zelenov who’s got nine points. they’re they’re the type of team that it’s not rope a dope though, right?

It’s it’s just ultimate structure. It’s always ultimate and there’s a big difference, right? Like there’s there is the rope a dope is the one who just pack the middle, stand there, they flip pucks out, that kind of they don’t do that. No, they back pressure, they gap, they put shots, they want shots from certain areas, right? It kind of reminds me of the Boston Bruins some years ago, right? Where goaltenders had predictability when facing shots. Yeah, I agree, you know, and they are so strong up the middle. Gavin Morrissey is probably the most underrated player in college hockey. He’s their number he’s their number one center.

And then you got Zelenov as their number two center. he’s a horse. and so they’re really strong up the middle and they really rely on their centermen to get back and help their D-corps and they’re not flashy. They don’t care to be flashy. They just play solid to the book. Don’t get beat and you know Mike Hastings and if you’re not paying attention to detail, guess what? You’re not going to play right. That’s just the way it is. And it’s not a fear thing. It’s just this is how we play and you have to buy in.

And if everyone is buying in to the system that he puts out there, they’re, you know, they’re they’re they’re going to be a tough out and they’re goaltending. I mean, Hower was their was their goaltender who started in the in the Frozen Four, played, you know, the majority of the games last year. Well, they bring in a kid from Cornell who is as highly touted and, you know, those two will battle it out all year. So, they’re they’re really strong in the net. also, so, you know, I’m I’m really looking forward to this weekend to see the contract.

I mean, Minnesota played Penn State last week and Billy, it was like watching the games and you were very familiar cuz we’re the same age back in the 80s with the Oilers. It was no defense up and down, you know, let’s try to get to eight, you know. I mean, that’s the way Penn State plays. They have defense is not in their vocabulary. you know, their goaltender was fabulous against Minnesota and now Minnesota’s going to face a team that is much more structured and it’s going to be a much different series. Well, let’s talk about Minnesota.

Let’s let’s go to Brett Larson, a new coach there looking to bring his structure, his style kind of when I say similar to what Hastings had to do in the few years is as the head coach at Wisconsin. Brett Larson comes in, he’s replacing a big time guy, right? It’s a It’s not an easy thing. Ask any coach. It’s And some coaches actually would say, “I want to be the guy after I don’t want to be the guy right after that guy. I want to be the guy after that other guy.” But right, he comes in there.

You tell me though, this is seems to be a little bit of a younger team there. They’re 500 to start the season. What is it? 33 and two so far. What have you seen from them? And what would your preview of them be as they head into this regular Big Ten season? Well, I make no excuses for anybody. but I will say this, their schedule to start the season was a beast. They started up at Michigan Tech, a team that is old, grizzled, one of those teams that plays a structured game that is not highly offensive. They have to, you know, they have to.

They have to That’s the way they play. Yeah. And I think it was a wakeup call for some of the Minnesota players. You know, the skill and that, you know, they had to play in some tough areas. it was a good series. Minnesota ends up losing both game by a goal. Okay. Then they go on to Duluth. Y. Okay. UMD in my opinion is a top five team in the country. Top to bottom. They’re loaded. And you know, it was a it was a good series, a loss and a tie.

And then, you know, so with a lot of pressure on Minnesota, North Dakota comes to town and Minnesota beat North Dakota both nights pretty good. It was it was a really good series. It was hard. you know, the tensions get up so it was very physical and dirty and all of that all put together and, you know, and Minnesota played really well. they played well last weekend against Penn State. ran into a hot goaltender and you know this Fleming kid from watch out for him for Penn State is the real deal. you know and they end up winning in overtime the second night, losing in a shootout the first night.

So they’re young, but they’ve got some players, you know, Brody Zemer, LJ Mooney, who’s electric to watch. what they’ve really added is their on their D-corps this year. Mhm. They’ve got some guys that can get up in the plate and you know, for the first couple weeks of the season, they were a little hesitant to do that. Now they’re getting more involved. the Tanner Hendricks kid who probably will be gone in a Columbus Blue Jackets uniform at the end of the season. He’s that good. you know, have really stepped up their game. So, I’m I’m cautiously optimistic on Minnesota. I think they’ll be right in the hunt.

Obviously, this weekend is a big weekend, but again, we haven’t even hit the 10 game mark, right? And so, let’s talk in January about, you know, where some of these teams are at. Are they a pretender or a contender? And we’ll know that, you know, we’ll know, you know, if they come together or not. But, you know, I think this weekend is going to be a great series with Minnesota and Wisconsin. What would you say is Brett Larson’s identity as a coach? Like what is he and what is he or is he significantly different than what they had there with Motzko?

I you know what I Yeah, he wants to be a heck of a lot more aggressive. Is that the defenseman getting involved more? Is that Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He wants his you know and he’s a big puck control guy. He’s a big get in on the forecheck. He wants to go north and south. He wants his team to always be aggressive, always own the puck, and and they’re starting to get there. It’s not quite there yet. They’ve got depth one through four. I you know, I think they’re they found a kid, this Humphre kid who was initially at Michigan when he was very young. and you know the kids had three goals this weekend, two the the weekend before against North Dakota.

So he’s you know starting to find his games, but Minnesota is a team that likes to play hard and play fast and play aggressive. How have the and this might be getting into the minutia a little bit, but I’m just curious. How have the fans responded to this? It’s a big change in the program. you know, the program the program’s been working its way through some things the last couple of years like how are things there with regard to how the program is viewed now? Well, they wanted the head coach fired after the second weekend and so you know I mean that’s that’s the way it is.

But you know he’s preached I think some patience with them as he should because when you have 13 new players Yeah. and you have a whole new pretty much a whole new coaching staff. It takes a while to understand and you know guys maybe trying a little bit too hard to impress the coach coaches on the bench trying to understand how the staff is going to relate to each other. So I think all of that is coming along and they’re starting to and you can see it and they’re playing better.

I mean, it was, you know, 11,000 people each night versus North Dakota and the place was, you know, it was crazy. So, you know, I think you know, it’s it’s there’s still What is this team? What, you know, are they going to be good or are they not going to be good? We don’t know. I guess, as I said, we’ll see in the next month or so with the schedule that they have and if they can stack some wins. Yeah, getting in the meat of things will tell a lot. Ohio State, let’s touch on them.

Michigan just saw them this past weekend. the Saturday Sunday series. they’re a grind team. I they at least they played the 113 strictly against Michigan. They Yep. You know, that’s what they do. Loaded the line, protected the middle, triangled up, whichever terms you want to use. They’ve added a little bit more offense potential, especially in the Bometian kid on the back end. I had to watch him. I had the ability, I mean, to watch him here in Boston when he was with BEu and this was a what he felt obviously a better opportunity in there for at Ohio State.

They’re going to give him a lot of power play time. They played the young kid Maloa, the freshman goaltender both games this weekend. I liked him. I you know, I don’t I don’t know his game much, Pat, but I liked him. But I think this is going to I think they’re going to be a grind team. I just think that’s what they are. And they have some sneaky guys. I can Caribel is a really good player. He was very good. Yeah. You know, he’s he’s he’s a really good player. And so, you know, Billy, how many times have we looked at the Big Ten and every year we pass over Ohio State and every year at the end of the season, Steve Roll has his team upsetting somebody in the first round.

They did it last year and they did it the year before and well last year they went to the Big Ten title game and fell short of getting in. So they just they play a really smart brand of hockey. They know who they are. They don’t try to be somebody else and they’re tough to play against. They just are. And did it surprise me that they, you know, they got some points out of Michigan a little bit, you know, a little bit. But, you know, the way Steve Roll coaches, he can find a way to get his teams to hang around and hang around and hang around and they’ll have some, you know, they’re going to have some clunkers, you know, this year, but come playoff time, they’re going to be tough. their antenna was up for Michigan coming in.

Michigan, if I remember correctly, they had they were five and0 against them last year. Michigan was over Ohio State and they beat him in the playoffs and so that was you in the in the final. so they brought their best. They did I you know I think they did absolutely everything they had to do. Now whether or not that can be a repeatable style of hockey week in week out, that can be hard. that grind can be hard, but I know you know this good goaltending and just, you know, timely scoring in any sport, I guess. You know, timely scoring is key, but that’s what they can do.

But this is a team that, listen, I mean, can they stay middle of the pack and do what they did last year? Why not? Like, wouldn’t put it past them. The thing with the Big Ten is, you know, we go through now we play, you know, non-conference games and then sprinkle in a couple league games and then there’s another non-conference. But then we get to January. And once we get to January, it’s a gauntlet. It’s every week it’s Michigan versus Michigan State. Oh, and then Michigan’s got to go to Wisconsin. Oh, and then Michigan’s got to go to Minnesota.

And then and so that to me that January to midFebruary is the ultimate test of all of these teams and who can survive it, right? Who can survive it and you know get locked up and get home ice and you know and secure your NCAA and all that kind of stuff. You can look at I look no further than Minnesota a year ago. They had Michigan, Wisconsin, Michigan State back to back to back and lost all six and I think Penn State was sprinkled in after that who was very good last year.

And so you can either, you know, be relevant or you can go right to the bottom and it’s hard. It’s a grind for these for these kids and these players every week at that stage of the year. So that’s, you know, that’s the that’s what I watch for. And, you know, once we hit January, it’s it’s all and everybody comes back from the quick holiday break. The freshmen now feel like they belong. There’s a different attitude and everybody’s rested at least a little bit more. And is every is everybody buying into what the coach is selling? Exactly. You know, and okay, are we are we jelling?

Do we have that rhythm? Are we, you know, you know, is the mind is the mindset, hey, we’re going in, we’re going to win, you know, and that’s there’s so many factors that play a part of it other than what we see on paper. Yeah. And you know, by the way, one of them too, and not to be a smartass here, but does everybody come back? And in this era now it you see you hear about that happening now because people are get unsatis dissatisfied you know there’s there’s only one puck to go around right exactly why am I not on a power play this guy is I’m a first round pick and you know and so and it so I think and I’m glad you brought that up because I think it is so the most important thing for these teams if they’re going to succeed is the coach.

I agree is the coaching staff. Are they going to be able to keep everybody on that same page of what the ultimate goal is? Yeah, it’s it’s a team thing, but it we let’s face facts. The individual has accelerate it. It’s become more important than it than ever, you know, every year. Well, I you know, and that’s why I you know, I mentioned earlier the growth I saw in Brandon Naurato as a coach. Mhm. What he was able to do with a Garrett Schifsky Yep. a year. You know, Shisky went from, you know, a top six guy to a bottom six guy and said, “Okay.” Mhm.

Is that what you need for me? And he bought into it or he sold him on it. and Shisky, you know, he’s to me one of the again one of the most underrated players in college hockey. great penalty killer, can play the power play even though he’s not on the power play, right? but could be on any power play in the Big Ten, but he accepted his role and that’s where, you know, Nado did such a good job of saying, “Hey, you know, this is this is how I want you to play. This is where we need you.” And he accepted it. Yeah. You know, and that’s not easy.

No. And that’s why he’s a good captain for this. That’s why he’s a good captain there. And it’s a hard thing. but you know, better for the team and he’s very valuable. You see your point that very real quick. I know we’re we’re we won’t go into Notre Dame only because we talked you mentioned them. Brock Sheen second season there. It’s just really rebuilding that program. obviously when Notre Dame is good, it’s great for college hockey though. The notoriety is fantastic. My favorite building, my favorite building in the league. It’s beautiful. Yeah, it is. It’s beautiful spot.

But let’s touch on Penn State quickly before we wrap up our Big Ten preview with you. I mean, 13 players gone. you want to talk about a This is I wouldn’t call it a tear down. It’s not a down to the studs, but it ain’t far from it. I mean, this is a change of the lineup there, the roster significantly. They started 25 and one. They did add a couple of kids. They got the Porier kid who came in transferred and that’s going to help. They have Jackson Smith back there, Lar Rose in there as well. But, you know, you talk about coaching, you talk about style.

Is it going to be a tough year in Penn State though, just given how they want to play and how what they have, I guess, on their roster. without Josh Fleming. Last week, Minnesota beats him by four goals both nights. They play a style that is I can’t even explain the style. I really can’t. And you know, they run and gun. They had no care for defense. Jackson Smith is an absolute stud. If he gets coached properly, he’ll be in the you know, he’s NHL talent today, right? However, you know, you can’t take a chance on every play. Sometimes you have to live to fight another day.

He’s in the offensive zone more than their forwards are sometimes. Okay. So, that’s the type they’re they’re loosey goosey. They just get it and throw it and spread the ice and they’ll get, you know, Minnesota and I’m like I was shocked when I Brett Larson and I were talking before Saturday’s game. He said, “Do you know that we had eight breakaways last night?” I’m like, “Well, I know you had a few.” I didn’t count them in my head when we were doing the game, but they had eight breakaways. And that’s what I was telling this Fleming kid was phenomenal in that.

And so, yeah, you know, they got to tighten things up defensively. They’ve got some talent. their D-corps. The Collins kid is a is a pretty good player, you know, but if they don’t, they could they could be in trouble, you know, unless they get phenomenal goaltending every night. Yeah, it that’s just it’s a hard way. It’s a fun way to play, but not if you’re chasing. Oh, I enjoy. Hey, as a broadcaster, you know, you would have thoroughly loved it, you know, because it was back and forth and, you know, I mean, it was it was really entertaining, but, you know, I don’t know if you can win that way in this day and age in this league.

Well, not with that kind of changeover in your lineup. It’s just it’s it’s just too much., 2 secondsListen, it’s a it’s a great place. it’s been a tremendous asset to the Big Ten and for many reasons and let’s hope, 11 secondsthat you know look I want every team in Big Ten to be good. I do. I want every team to be great. I want they all can’t be but I want them all to be highly, 19 secondscompetitive and make it the best conference that the there is in the NCAA. Well, in the end, listen, I’m not going to I’m not a prediction guy.

I’m I’m It’s just not my thing., 30 secondsUm we’ll have you on in January because you’ve referenced it a few times. Let’s see how these teams are in January and then we’ll then we’ll what we’ll do then, 38 secondsis we’ll we’ll kind of mici it crystal ball it there because now we’ll have a better feel. We’ll know if there’s any injuries, we’ll have an idea, etc. We, 47 secondscan get in there. It’s great to catch up with you., 50 secondsAwesome. Awesome insight. I always love the energy and your passion for it. unbelievable hockey family and you, 58 secondsguys from Minnesota, you knew how to play, you know, and you sure did. so Pat Micheletti, thanks a lot.

When do you have the broadcast coming up this weekend? Yeah, we got Wisconsin this weekend. So I’m looking forward to it. It’s a Thursday, Saturday game. So yeah, it should be a good another great series in the Big Ten. It will be great. All right, Pat, thanks for joining us here on the Maize and Blue Breakaway. Great to have you, bud. Yeah, thank you. Take care. If you like this kind of content, please like, share, follow, and subscribe. And as always, go blue!]