Inside Michigan Basketball: Dylan Murphy on Winning, Development & What’s Ahead. Go Blue Hoops Ep 46

[Hail Media Group presents Go Blue Hoops, where Michigan basketball’s past, present, and future all come together in one show. Hosted by former Wolverine great, 10-year NBA veteran, and longtime ESPN and NBC college basketball analyst Tim McCormick. Each episode goes beyond the box scores from championship memories and recruiting stories to sharp breakdowns of the season ahead. Insight, legacy, Michigan basketball. This is Go Blue Hoops.

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So I’m on vacation this week and I thought of about 50 reasons why I should just enjoy my vacation and not do a podcast. But I decided I like doing this so much and we’ve got a really nice winning streak going of consecutive shows, and so I want to talk about Michigan on the front line. Big challenges this upcoming season because Michigan will have a brand new starting lineup, 80% new players that didn’t start last year. The strength of Michigan basketball the last two years is their massive size on the front line at the power positions. Danny Wolf and Vlad Goldin, Area 51, the screen game emerged. They got so much better on the boards leading their team. And then last year, Michigan’s number one strength on the way to a national championship was their size in the front line, the biggest team in all of college basketball up front. They had the size of an NBA team, and no one could match up with them.

This year, I’m extremely optimistic about Michigan’s front court. I think it will be a major strength. I enjoyed Mike Boynton’s conference call with the media revealing how much he loves the leadership of Elliot Cadeau and Tre Johnson. He also talked about Moustapha Thiam and JP Estrella at the power positions. If you add Jalen Reed, here’s the matchup that I think is going to be so hard to deal with. I want to talk about the three veteran bigs for Michigan on the front line, and I want to say that I think it’s so important to have a four and a five that’s versatile.

I think back to 1984, the NIT championship team that I played on. I was 6’11, Roy Tarpley 6’10, Butch Wade, Richard Rellford, Robert Henderson. Great size, and it can make such a huge impact on so many levels. You control the boards. Your post defense is good. You score inside which sucks in the defense and gets open shots for the perimeter guys. Here’s what I like about the three big men that are all transfers in for Michigan on the front line. I think it’s going to be a great season upcoming with Michigan having a dominant front court—maybe the best in the whole Big Ten.

Okay, let me start off with the big guy that has caught my eye and he’s been my favorite Michigan big man this year, JP Estrella. Here’s the breakdown of his game, what I’ve seen. First, he played at Tennessee, so he’s a winner. Three straight years going to the Elite Eight. He was a double-figure scorer last year at 10 points per game. You may say that’s not much. Well, if you do it in 18 minutes, that is pretty impressive. Also, Rick Barnes does not play through his big guys. They played this old school double box, double low post offense, and JP had to fight for everything that he got. I also expect him to play more minutes, I would think 24 maybe 25 minutes per game. I expect his scoring numbers and his rebounding numbers to grow from last year. Also, I think he’s going to be a little bit like Morez Johnson and Aday Mara, that he proves in practice that he can make threes and they give him the ability to step out and shoot them. He’s a pretty darn good shooter.

Also, when I watch this Michigan team in practice, I think that JP is the number one vocal leader. Plus, if you play for Rick Barnes at Tennessee, you learn how to play defense. I think that JP Estrella is going to be vastly underrated on the college basketball landscape. I think he’s going to be one of the top three or four power forwards in the league. He can play the backup five if you need. Don’t be surprised if JP Estrella finds himself on one of the All-Big Ten teams. Here’s my prediction: he’ll average 12 points per game, seven rebounds, and plenty of double-doubles.

Okay, next up, the center position for Michigan is going to be so important. Aday Mara went from being an afterthought to a lottery pick. Moustapha Thiam has the experience and the skills to make a similar leap. I was looking at a CBS mock draft this morning, and they actually have Moose going number 28 to the Pistons. Does that mean anything right now? Absolutely not. However, they were saying the same things about Aday Mara and Morez Johnson one year ago right now. Moose is so long and he moves well. At 7’2, you would think he would be a force at the rim. On defense, he is. Elite rim protection. He’s got a real presence, good coverage—that means he can move sideways and help people out. One of the type of players that if somebody drives, they’re immediately thinking, “Okay, where’s Moustapha?” and then they start to look at the rim. That forces a lot of missed shots because of the distraction.

On offense, he’s really interesting to me. Michigan needs post scoring, right? Well, that’s not really what Moustapha does. He moves very well, and he likes to shoot threes. I don’t personally think that that’s a strength right now, but he can make a three and he definitely likes roaming out there. His best minutes at Cincinnati, he was a three-point threat. The strength of Moustapha’s game is mid-range. I can see him being a lob threat in the screen game, and I wonder if Coach Mike Boynton will try to activate the way that Vlad did the big-on-big screen game with Danny Wolf. I do expect Moustapha Thiam to be a double-figure scorer. I watched Cincinnati last year and I always felt like their guards were a little too dominant with the ball and Moustapha would be open and not get it. Trust me, if you play with Elliot Cadeau, he’s going to make Moose a better player all by himself. He gets his big men involved. It’s going to be fun to watch as they evolve. And remember, if you give your big guys layups and dunks, they become so much better dominating the boards, running the court, and playing in the low post. Moustapha Thiam is going to average, I think, 11.7 rebounds per game.

All right, Estrella and Thiam will be formidable. I know that for a fact. I think combined they’re going to average 20 points and 15 rebounds per game. The question is, who is the primary backup? Believe me when I say that if he’s healthy, veteran big man Jalen Reed from LSU is going to be that guy. There’s so much to like about him. First off, 6’10, 245. He can play both the four and the five. He’s physical, he’s mature, he’s got a grown man’s body. Coming off an ACL and Achilles the last two years, his recovery and his preparation right now is going great. I had a huge smile on my face when I watched how well he was moving. He’s doing non-contact drills, which is so far ahead of pace. He looks great and seriously, I’m very impressed with where he’s at.

During practices when they are doing contact drills, he is watching and learning and supporting his teammates. He’s learning the expectations and the system, and when he’s just shooting around, you can see the guy is a ball player. He’s got a beautiful shot. I’m truly excited to watch Jalen break out this year and get back on the court. On a personal note, when I see Jalen Reed at practice, I know how much he’s hurting and how anxious he is to play. Remember with my journey in 1981 after my freshman year, I had two knee surgeries. I sat for 14 months with no basketball whatsoever, and I rehabbed like Jalen is. The word that I would use to describe it is isolation. You just don’t feel like you’re part of the team. The rehab is hard. There’s a lot of sadness. It’s really brutal, and all you want to do is just get out there and play ball with your friends. He wants to be on the court. Michigan is going to need his power, his strength, and his resolve when they go on the road at Purdue, Illinois, Michigan State, and Wisconsin. You need physicality, and that’s what he’s going to bring. Also, I can remember when I finally got back on the court, I was so filled with enthusiasm. I couldn’t wait to play and help my teammates, and you’re going to see that kind of excitement from Jalen Reed when he gets back. Keep up the good work. Hang in there and it’s going to be a great season for Michigan’s big guys.

So Michigan’s front line is loaded this year and will be a real strength for this team when you think about Moustapha Thiam, JP Estrella, and Jalen Reed—three veteran players that have been through battles in power conferences. What really makes this front line very special is that Michigan has six big men. In this age of the transfer portal and NIL, it’s really hard to stockpile talent at the big positions. Big guys are needed everywhere. Marcus Moller, freshman, 7’3, same size as Aday Mara. He moves well, he glides out there, and he’s going to have a chance to play. And then on the front line also at 6’10, Quinn Costello, second best shooter on the team behind Tre Johnson. He’s going to see minutes this year. Oscar Goodman from New Zealand, probably the most physical player on Michigan’s team. He throws his body around. He can play the three, he can play the four.

The beauty of this for Michigan: all three of those bench players that I mentioned will get an opportunity this year. Why? Because the NCAA has the new rule—there’s no redshirting. None of those guys is going to redshirt. They will all play this year because they have five years of college basketball eligibility. There’s no reason to wait; get them experience now. Also, if guys don’t play as a freshman, they’re much more likely to leave their sophomore year. All of those guys are going to get plenty of opportunity to showcase their talents.

Hey Michigan fans, we will be right back. But first, a word from our sponsor. For generations, Knight’s Steakhouse has been an Ann Arbor tradition. Family-owned and serving the community since 1952. From hand-cut steaks and fresh seafood to classic cocktails and genuine hospitality, visit Knight’s on Dexter Avenue or downtown Ann Arbor. Knight’s Steakhouse: Great food, strong drinks, Ann Arbor tradition.

All right, everybody, it’s time for the Michigan Man interview. But before we do, I want to take an opportunity to welcome a new sponsor. Thanks for joining us, Valiant. Fantastic Michigan spirit wear. I love my Valiant baseball hat. Great work by my good friend John Wangler. We’re indeed fortunate to have Valiant as one of our sponsors.

And we’re also really fortunate because our special guest today is Michigan’s new assistant coach Dylan Murphy, who brings a wealth of knowledge to this team—13 years as a coach in the G League and the NBA. He has head coaching experience, player development, analytics, everything you could possibly want. He can do it all. Dylan, welcome and thanks for joining me.

“Appreciate you having me.”

How’s your Maize and Blue experience going so far? I know your wife is a Fenton native. Did you know a lot about Ann Arbor before you arrived?

“Yeah, I’d only ever been here once. So, really didn’t know a ton, but have really enjoyed it. Staff has been super welcoming. Really, everyone I’ve run into on campus has been great. Players have been awesome. So, just diving right in, right into practice, and it’s been really good so far.”

Dylan, what’s something that you just didn’t know about Michigan basketball or living in Ann Arbor that you like or love?

“I didn’t realize how much of a food city Ann Arbor was. So it’s been pretty cool just being able to explore these first couple weeks and just trying to test as many places out as possible. But I think the thing that stood out, especially with our group, is just the togetherness of everybody. It’s not like this at every place. I’ve really enjoyed how the guys buy into each other, buy into the staff, a competitive spirit. It’s all been really, really good, and it just kind of stamps the decision I made to come here.”

Have you found a restaurant that’s your favorite so far?

“I don’t want to declare an early favorite because I still got a lot to go, but definitely have had some good experiences so far.”

So Dylan, when you first met Head Coach Mike Boynton, can you share what that first conversation was about and did you already know him when he reached out?

“Yeah, no, I didn’t know Coach at all. We had a great initial conversation, just about the culture of the program, what he was looking for, and it just flowed really well. It felt less like an interview and more just like a conversation, and I got really excited about the opportunity and I’m just grateful that it worked out.”

When we met, it was I think the day before you were going to get hired. We had a really good conversation and it got me excited because you said that you felt like Michigan basketball has an NBA-like environment. What is similar between Michigan basketball and the NBA that made you feel that way?

“Yeah, I mean, I think just stylistically the way the program operates kind of globally, and then just from a basketball sense, how the staff runs offense and defense is similar to the NBA for sure. So I think that helps. And then honestly, I think one of the other big helps is the size of our team. Obviously last year’s team was very big as well, and we’ve got great size on this year’s team too. For us to be able to go against each other in practice every day, that also feels like the NBA dealing with that size. So I think it’s been great for our guys, and for me, just helping the transition be a little bit more smooth.”

Dylan, you mentioned the massive size. You’ve been with the team for a short time. What are maybe some other observations on team strengths for the upcoming season?

“Yeah, you know, I’m still learning the guys, learning what they do well. So the returners have a better sense than me of how they played in this system. And I think that’s the biggest thing I’ve learned in the NBA and the G League: everyone has their strengths and weaknesses for sure, but depending on the system of basketball you play, it’s going to accentuate different parts of people’s games. So guys have different reputations for how they played at previous stops or here, but when you see it kind of all blend together, that’s when I think different strengths will kind of reveal themselves. But for me, I’m just really trying to get to know everybody and how they play. Obviously, Elliot Cadeau is a great passer, Tre Johnson’s shooting ability… you can go down the line, Brandon McCoy’s athleticism. Everybody is kind of showing a lot of different things they can do, and it’ll just be interesting to see how it all kind of gels together.”

Now, I know you watched the Michigan-UConn National Championship game from a distance. What impressed you about the team last season?

“For me, it was just the togetherness of how they played. To be honest, the way the ball moved—when you think of togetherness, you think of the passing—but even so, just the demand for the basketball. You didn’t see guys out there clapping for the ball. You didn’t see them pouting when somebody else scored. There’s a true buy-in to winning as the most important thing. Whoever’s night it was was whose night it was. I think that is one of the most powerful forces in basketball, and you could just feel it in watching the team play, how connected they were, and how much they bought into each other’s success.”

So, I’m so excited to ask this question. When you look at the current roster, when you work with the players, when you watch them during practice, who’s the one guy that has surprised you the most as a player where you say, “Wow, this guy is really, really good”?

“That’s an interesting question. I’m not sure if there’s one person that has stood out. A bunch of guys have stood out to me. I think what’s interesting about it more so is I wasn’t locked into college basketball as much last year. First the G League with our team in Osceola, and then obviously the NBA in Orlando. A lot of these guys are new to me in some sense, right? I’ve had to watch a ton of film to get up to speed. So yeah, I don’t know if it all feels fresh to me, if that makes sense. I’m just learning so much about our players every day that I don’t know if there’s one guy that stood out, but I just didn’t have a great feel for these guys not having coached against them or coached in college.”

So let me ask it a different way. Since you arrived, is there an under-the-radar guy that may be poised for a breakout year? Somebody that you didn’t realize was a pretty darn good player?

“Yeah, I mean, I think a bunch of our freshmen are pretty good. Quinn Costello’s ability to shoot the ball, Marcus Moller with great size and shooting, Joe Hartman, Malachi Brown… they’ve all shown a ton. Obviously Brandon McCoy. Just the level of our freshmen generally, I’ve been super impressed with. Obviously the guys with college basketball experience, you’re going to expect a certain level of capability, but our freshmen have looked really good and I’ve been super impressed with how they played.”

Tre Johnson is an NBA-caliber shooter, so balanced as a player. Can you see any areas that he’s trying to upgrade his game?

“Yeah, I mean, for me, I think the most important thing is accentuating his strengths. Yes, he’s got to work on other parts of his game, but we don’t want him to be a B+ or A- shooter; we want him to be an A+ shooter. How can you take his already elite skill and make him one of the best shooters in the country, period? I think that’s something that we’re thinking about and how to use him. To Tre’s credit, he’s a great kid, works super hard, and he’s committed to the way we do things at Michigan. I’m relatively convinced that whatever his ceiling is, he’s going to reach it.”

The practices that I’ve watched so far, Dylan, I can’t take my eyes off of Brandon McCoy. World-class athlete. Reminds me a little bit of Ausar Thompson from the Pistons, but I think that Brandon is a better athlete. Your time in the NBA, in the G League, is there a player that—not that he’s better than or he’s going to be—someone that he reminds you of?

“Yeah, it’s a good question. The first name that came to my mind was Anthony Black from the Orlando Magic. Kind of the same rangy, athletic, explosive build. But sometimes I think it’s unfair to compare players to each other. Brandon McCoy is Brandon McCoy, you know? His game is different. But athletically, length, all of that, he checks every box and then some. Most importantly, he’s a worker. Given his work ethic and his character, whatever his ceiling is, he’ll reach it for sure.”

Yeah, and I agree with you. It’s probably not fair to compare players, but it’s still a fun game to play, isn’t it?

“Yeah.”

You took a non-traditional route into coaching. You went to Columbia, no basketball playing background there. You were involved in media, analytics, and player development. What is your favorite part of coaching? The thing that you’re most passionate about?

“Yeah, I mean, I just love being on the floor. Those two hours of practice every day are where I get the most joy. The film work and all of that, being organized as a staff, is super important, but just being with the guys on the floor, sweating with them, coaching them up… that’s my favorite part of this. There’s just nothing like being involved with a group of guys in a competitive atmosphere when it feels like it’s just you against the world.

I had a coach once say this—Steve Clifford, which I thought was really good: ‘Nobody knows what you guys are going through except for us in this room.’ When you’re in that tight-knit group, just the coaches and players, you’re the guys that understand the ups and downs of that. I just love being in the foxhole with a good group of guys, and we obviously have that here.”

It’s interesting to me that the lifeblood of any program is the skill development, the player development. When you’re working out a player, are you constantly trying to develop new drills, or do you focus more on the old-school fundamentals that they’ve been doing for years and years?

“Yeah, I think it’s less about what you work on and more how you do it. There’s been a lot of interesting work from people with PhDs in motor learning and various learning specialties about how you design practice, how you design drills in a way to stimulate long-term retention of what you’re doing. Definitely a big fan of digging into that literature and figuring out how to apply it on the court with guys. A lot of that is playing small-sided games, giving them read-and-react situations, and involving a ton of decision-making. As you know, that’s the hard part of the game. Repping it versus a coach with a pad is a lot different than when you have to make decisions really fast at the speed of the game. How can we replicate that speed of decision-making in a practice setting? That’s something we try to think deeply about.”

Very interesting. We spoke to the Director of Analytics for Michigan basketball, Jacob Cahn, on the podcast, and it was fascinating. I’m learning so much about analytics. What is the metric that is most important to you, the one that you think determines wins and losses, and what’s the analytic that maybe gets too much discussion and is not that impactful?

“Yeah, I don’t really think there is an all-in-one metric that’s going to capture what decides winning and losing. I would say the one thing that maybe has gotten overblown over the years is the value of the three-ball relative to the rim. The rim is still the most valuable place on the court, and that is what opens up everything else. Getting a paint touch is what opens up spot-up threes and gets you to the free-throw line. The points per shot at the rim is always more efficient than a three, even a wide-open three.

I think where coaches have learned a ton is hunting layups and threes as much as possible, but more so I think the players deserve a lot of credit. In the last 15 years of self-sorting, the guys who can make mid-rangers at a high clip are taking them, but the guys who can’t aren’t. Players are much faster to recognize their strengths and weaknesses than maybe they were in a different era. You see a lot of guys, even rookies or second-year guys in the NBA, who won’t even take mid-rangers because they understand—you don’t even have to coach that out of them. And then the guys who do take them, you watch them shoot mid-rangers and it’s like, ‘Well, okay, you’re making 55% of them, so this is a shot we want you to take.’ So yeah, the value of the rim is huge, and the players deserve a lot of credit for having grown up in this era and adjusted their games accordingly.”

When you’re working out a player, what are some of the key skills that separate NBA prospects from good college players?

“Yeah, I don’t know if it’s a skill set necessarily. Again, similar to my last answer, the recognition of what you do well is arguably the most critical piece of development. Players who just know that, ‘Okay, I’m not a great ball-handler, so I’m going to throw and chase with the big,’ or ‘Hey, I’m a really good spot-up shooter, so I’m going to find my way to the corners more often than above the break’… things like that. The guys who just have that natural understanding of what they do well puts them in a position to look good.

And then the guys who don’t have that natural understanding, obviously you have to work with them on that, but a lot of it is perception of who is better than who. There’s 200 players on planet Earth who were going to be in the NBA no matter what they did because of their athletic tools and skill. And then there’s a thousand guys that could be in the NBA, and only the next 250 are. Your IQ and understanding of your game is super critical, because if you don’t have that feel for who you are as a player, wellHere is the final section cleaned up and ready to append to the end of the transcript:

“…well, you know, the NBA can find two or three guys that do have that feel. So I definitely think it’s a huge separator.”

“I love that analogy. That makes so much sense. So we spent the opening segment in today’s podcast talking about the power positions and we’re trying to learn the big guys, find out more about their game. What do you like about Moustapha that you’ve seen? It seems like he loves the mid-range on offense. He can shoot the three if he needs to, rim protection, but can you give us an overview on what you guys are working on with Moustapha and what kind of player we can expect this year?”

“Yeah, I mean I’m still learning about him for sure, just like you are. I’ve really been impressed by his work ethic—he lives in the gym. Obviously an elite shot blocker, great around the rim. I think the thing that surprised me the most is his ability to move his feet. He really can stay in front; he’s athletic laterally and vertically. The game is a lot different now. He can make a three, he can put the ball down, he can do a bunch of different things. His game is really exciting, and we’re all obviously very happy to have him. Most importantly, the quality of person he is—we’re happy to have someone that has both the game and the character.”

“Can you break down JP Estrella’s game a bit?”

“Yeah, we’re really excited about him. I think he gives us great versatility—the ability to play the four, to play the five. Super high IQ, physical, really good rebounder. He’s just comfortable in a lot of different ways. If you want to play a power, physical game, he’s good with that. If you want to make it a more skilled game, he’s good with that. He gives us an element of versatility which will be really helpful. Just like I said at the beginning, the character of our group—he’s another super high-character human being, a great learner who wants to get better, so it’s been really enjoyable to work with him.”

“Two years ago, Michigan was led by Vlad Goldin and Danny Wolf, a four and a five that are both in the NBA now. The two of them played some pick-and-roll basketball together with Danny Wolf as the ball handler, and it was highly effective. Do you think you could see JP and Moose playing screen basketball together this year?”

“Yeah, we’ll see. Who knows? We’ll figure that out as we go. It’s funny, I actually coached against Vlad Goldin this past year because he was on a two-way contract with the Miami Heat. When he was in the G League with Sioux Falls, we played him, so I got to see up close and personal how big and physical that dude is. He’s a problem in the paint for sure.”

“Good. Just a few more questions. You spent the majority of your life in pro basketball. Why college? Why Michigan right now?”

“Yeah, I probably wouldn’t have left Orlando for a lot of places. I had an unbelievable experience there, and that organization treated me and my family extremely well. But Michigan’s one of those programs… it’s a special place, and that’s been borne out since I’ve been here. Speaking with Coach Boynton felt like it was a good fit with him. Then obviously my wife being from Michigan too—kind of all those factors lined up in a way that made it seem like this would be a great move. I’ve really enjoyed it so far and just look forward to being in the gym every day and exploring the city. It’s been awesome.”

“Dylan, Dusty May used to say about his players, ‘What special sauce do they bring to the court to help the team?’ Dylan, what’s your special sauce? What are you bringing to the team that is really going to make a big difference this year?”

“I don’t know, I’m just trying not to screw up right now! That’s my biggest thing—no spills, that’s my sauce right now. But yeah, just trying to fit in in whatever way I can. I bring a different set of experiences than anyone else on the staff, but I think that’s a credit to Coach Boynton for being open-minded to bring someone in like me who hasn’t been in college. And it’s a credit to our staff to have welcomed me in the way they have. That’s what makes a good staff: we’ve all been in different places, worked for different coaches, and you blend those ideas together to create something new and powerful. So I’m just excited to fit in here. They’ve had a little bit of success the last couple years, so I just don’t want to screw it up too badly.”

“Is there one particular game on the schedule that you’re looking forward to more than the others?”

“Not really. I’m just excited to experience college basketball generally. For me, it’s only been on TV my whole career. I’ve seen plenty of NBA games in my life, and that doesn’t wear off—I’m still super grateful that I’ve had that experience. But there’s something special about the atmosphere in college basketball, at home and on the road. I’m excited to get into Crisler, I’m excited to go on the road, I’m pumped for all of it. I wish the season started tomorrow! Even to be practicing right now, I just love every piece of basketball, so I’m just grateful and excited.”

“When you look at this Michigan team, what do you think will be its identity this upcoming season?”

“Yeah, we were the best defensive team in the league last year, so it’s going to start on that end, as I think it does with every basketball team. We’ll be big and physical number one. Offensively, one of the beauties of Coach Boynton still being here and a lot of the staff still being here from last year is there’ll be some continuity with how we play offensively. Then you make your adjustments and tweaks based on who your best players are and what the skill set of your guys are. Elliot, Tre, Oscar Goodman returning—a bunch of guys returning will be helpful for us. But at the same time, you have to figure out how to use your players in their new roles in the best way. So I think we’re looking at a good blend of continuity, but injecting a little bit of some wrinkles as you have to. In basketball, the coaching is so good, especially in the Big Ten. They’ll be ready for us, so we’ve got to be ready to adjust.”

“Dylan, Michigan’s players, Coach Boynton, the fans—we’re lucky that you’re in Ann Arbor and we think you’re going to have a huge impact. Thank you very much. Also want to take an opportunity to thank our sponsors again: Michigan Medicine, Olipop, Knight’s Steakhouse, and our new sponsor, Valiant. We’re really lucky to have them. Dylan, thank you very much for joining us.”

“Thanks for having me. Really appreciate it. All right. Go Blue. Go Blue.”

“If you like this kind of content, please like, share, follow, and subscribe. And as always, Go Blue!”]