Tim McCormick shares what he saw at Michigan Basketball practice. Go Blue Hoops Ep 42

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Hail Media Group presents Go Blue Hoops, where Michigan basketball’s past, present, and future all come together in one show. Hosted by former Wolverine great, 10-year NBA veteran, and longtime ESPN and NBC college basketball analyst Tim McCormack. Each episode goes beyond the box scores from championship memories and recruiting stories to sharp breakdowns of the season ahead. Insight, legacy, Michigan basketball. This is Go Blue Hoops. Hey everybody, the Go Blue Hoops podcast is presented by the leaders and best at Michigan Medicine. There’s a difference between an answer and a Michigan answer. To find your Michigan answer, visit michiganers.org. Also fired up about OLIPOP. Um, this is my favorite one. It’s the classic grape. This is good stuff. It’s healthier than other types of sodas. Thank you to OLIPOP and Michigan Medicine for being sponsors of the Go Blue Hoops podcast.

So, welcome everybody to episode number 42, the Midsummer edition. Not much hoops to talk about, right? Wrong. I’ve got a lot of things to say. First of all, um today I went to Michigan’s practice and I was mesmerized. I was in awe of what I was seeing. Um, first of all, I had a chance to meet Mustafa Cham and he told me to call him Moose. I didn’t know that. I didn’t expect it. Very cool. Very good guy. And I can’t believe how big he is. I’m 7 foot tall. I felt like I was a shooting guard or a small forward. He’s long. He’s athletic. Look, I’ve got breakdowns now on all of the Michigan players. I’ve I’ve got other things to talk about today. So, I think what I’ll do is on Tuesday of next week, I will give you my breakdown of what I saw from Michigan’s practice.

Also, I met the two Michigan assistants. One you already heard about last week, Mike Martin, who comes to us from Brown. Really liked him a lot. He’s going to bring so much as a head coach. The other coach hasn’t been finalized or announced and so I’m not going to mention his name. Um, but spent a lot of the practice talking to him about his background and he as well is a great hire. Also, Kyle Church is back as Michigan’s GM. Uh, that’s a great hire. I really like him a lot and I think he’s very important from a consistency standpoint. Um, also I was really, really surprised and appreciative that when I went to talk to Mike Boynton and congratulate him, he had me come over and introduce me to the team. Remember, there’s a lot of guys I’ve never met before and he asked me to to talk to the team about the legacy of Michigan and I’ll share that more in depth with you next week as well.

Also, the summer league is now over with and I’m going to give you during the podcast my top five Michigan performers in summer league in order. And then the thing that makes me most excited is talking about my teammate Richard Ralford. He’s going to be my Michigan man interview. And if you don’t know Rich, he’s one of the nicest, most likable guys that you’re ever going to meet. One of the top 10 dunkers in Michigan basketball history. Four-year starter. Four times he came to Michigan to play and three times he walked away as a champ. Big Ten championship, Big Ten championship, NIT championship. He’s a winner as well. Okay, before we dive into the basketball, I want to thank our third sponsor. Uh, this is going great.

We’re so excited that Knight’s Steakhouse is joining us. They’ve got their Tomahawk ribeye steak 1952 family-owned an institution in Ann Arbor. Thank you to Knight Steakhouse. Okay, summer league is over and watched a lot of Michigan ball players stepping out and doing a great job. These are my five top performers in the summer league. First of all, number five, Hunter Dickinson. The guy is just a good player. Everywhere he goes, he’s been very, very productive. Um, he averaged 14 points a game, seven rebounds. And I thought this was interesting. We always talked about the one thing that keeps him from being an NBA player. He’s not a three-point shooter, but he did shoot 40% from three. All right, number four on the list is Trey Donaldson, who was exceptional in the summer league for the Heat.

He ran their offense, 17 points per game. He really looked like he could be a bench spark next year for Miami. Um, the third on the list was a surprise to me. Uh, Kobe Buffkin exploded in Las Vegas. His career off to a slow start with Atlanta. Uh he was a dynamic playmaker for New Orleans and averaged 21 points per game. Good job by Kobe, an instate kid from Grand Rapids. Number two was Morez Johnson Jr.. He was one of the best players in Vegas. Uh and he did it all. Exceptional defense. He can cover anybody. He averaged 18 points, seven rebounds, and four block shots per game. Dusty May knew what he was getting with Morez Johnson Jr.. Number one really shouldn’t be a surprise. Yaxel Lendeborg, if you did not know this, led his Golden State Warrior team to the summer league championship.

He averaged 18 points per game, five assists. He shot his threes well. And in the championship game, he got some payback against Cameron Boozer from Duke. and he was out there talking some smack, making sure that Cameron knew that this was for that Duke loss earlier this year. And in case you’re wondering, how did Aday Mara do? He was okay. He he was a bit erratic. Um had some good games, had some mediocre games. But remember, the number one thing to remember is in the summer league, big guys never get the ball. All right, next up, I was thinking about Michigan’s trip to Croatia and Lithuania. It’s a 9-day trip starting August 21st. Uh Michigan will play three games versus highlevel pro teams. They will sightsee a little bit.

They’ll enjoy some team bonding and some camaraderie. And as a major benefit, Michigan will get 10 extra practices. And that’s perfect for a team with five freshman, three transfers, a new head coach. And this is also really good because those international teams are so physical and confrontational. I I’m curious. The NCAA allows a trip every four years. Has it helped Michigan in previous trips? Michigan has gone on multiple trips over the years. And let’s go back to John Beilein in 2010. Took his team to Belgium. New players, new guys in different roles. And the next year based on getting those 10 practices in the trip to Belgium. Michigan went 21 and 4 an NCAA trip. That was actually John Beilein’s first NCAA.

And Tim Hardaway Jr. became a star. It all started in Belgium. Next up, 2014, back-to-back four-year trips. John Beilein took his team to Italy. It didn’t really help. That was a strange year. That was the year Derek Walton broke his foot. Michigan hovered right at 16 and 16. 2018, John Beilein clearly liked taking his team international. It was his third trip. Went to Spain and wow, that paid dividends. 30-7 that year. Iggy Brazdeikis became a freshman star. Jordan Poole became a leader. Jon Teske solidified the middle. U Michigan was a number two seed. Sweet 16. Big impact. And then Juwan Howard in 2022 took his team to France and to Greece and really had some key players emerge. Kobe Buffkin, Tarris Reed, Jett Howard.

All three of those guys doing good work in the summer league. They played some good ball, but that year, surprisingly, no NCAA trip. So, this will help Mike Boynton a great deal to be able to get his offense in to be able to get his guys comfortable in their role. And I have to tell you, a little sneak preview of next week. When I watched Michigan play today, the best player on the court today was Brandon McCoy, the five-star freshman. Wow, he did everything. Seemed like every loose ball was his. He was a star in transition. He was dunking everything. Excellent defense. I’ll go more in depth on Brandon McCoy on Tuesday. All right. And last, before I get into my Michigan man interview, I had an opportunity to talk at length with Michigan head coach Mike Boynton.

I like the way that sounds. I just I thanked him. I shook his hand. I haven’t seen him since the national championship. And I just said, “Thank you for everything that you did. It was a thrilling ride. It’s the most enjoyable basketball season that I’ve ever watched at any level.” And looking back, uh, he signed his contract to become the head coach now. And I reviewed it. I thought it was fair. It provides ample opportunity to lead this Michigan team and and make the relationship with him as the head coach permanent. He will be fairly compensated, especially if he delivers on all of the incentives. And if it doesn’t work out, you know, everybody moves on. And and so the the most interesting part to me is that if Michigan wins 24 um that that solidifies Mike Boynton as Michigan’s coach, the other benchmark top four in the Big Ten, win the Big Ten tournament or get to a sweet 16.

So there’s a lot of things in his contract that that I think this Michigan team is totally prepared to be able to achieve. He has a roster that is loaded with talent. Last year around this time I watched Michigan’s team play with a die and Yaxel and MZ and everybody and and I was clearly excited. Um I am so excited about this roster too. I think that they are built for March success. I think that they are going to compete at the very top of the Big Ten. And Mike Boynton is going to do a great job. but he’s an outstanding defensive coach and I just saw a lot of similarities in practice today to what I saw from Dusty May last year. Couple of other things I didn’t know that that in Mike Boynton’s contract, he gets two cars with insurance included, eight basketball season tickets, six football season tickets, and if Michigan goes back to back, the incentive is $1.5 million.

That would be amazing. Overall, I’m happy for Mike Boynton and I believe that he will do a good job and Michigan fans will love this team in the upcoming season. Hey Michigan fans, we will be right back. But first, a word from our sponsor. When prenatal surgery is your baby’s best chance. When your sight is set on gene therapy for retinal disease. When a new airway is what you need to keep breathing. Only Michigan answers with specialized treatment options that aren’t available anywhere else in Michigan. We provide the nationally recognized care you need without having to travel out of state. Learn how University of Michigan Health answers the call at michiganers.org. For generations, Knights Steakhouse has been an Ann Arbor tradition.

Familyowned and serving the community since 1952. From hand-cut steaks and fresh seafood to classic cocktails and genuine hospitality. Visit Knight’s on Dexter Avenue or downtown Ann Arbor. Knights Steakhouse. Great food, strong drinks. Ann Arbor tradition. All right, everybody. Welcome back to the 42nd episode of the Go Blue Hoops podcast. And the highlight for me every week is sharing the wonderful, incredible stories of so many great Michigan men, guys, that have contributed so much to this wonderful university. And today is no exception. I am so excited to talk to my teammate and my amazing friend. My guest is Richard Ralford. He was an incredible athlete. Easily one of the top 10 dunkers in Michigan basketball history.

And get this, in four years at Michigan, he hung an NIT championship banner and two Big Ten championship banners. The great Richard Ralford. Rich, thanks for joining me. Well, thank you, Tim. I appreciate you. And uh you said the right thing. We were great teammates back in our day and uh I enjoyed my championship that we won with you. It was great. So, you know about championship basketball in Ann Arbor. Please reflect on your pride and your excitement about what happened with this 2026 National Championship team. Well, I got to tell you, I was overjoyed. Uh it the day we won it, uh it was a great day to be a Michigan man because the national championship put a cherry on the top of everything. And believe me, Tim, people who know me know that I live in Ohio and I talk a whole bunch of smack about the University of Michigan uh about against Ohio State Buckeyes and it was a good day for me.

When you look back on this season, was there a game or a play or something that really stood out to you that that you’ll never forget? Well, uh Yaxel’s dunk in the in the in the tournament. Uh when I when I tell you it changed everything for me because after the dunk it I went crazy and then not shortly after Trey hit the three. That’s what that’s what changed it for me. Uh I knew then that it was over. Yeah. I don’t think I’ve ever enjoyed a basketball season as much as I did this one. Um 89 was thrilling. I I watched every minute of every game, but but this was different. What what made this Michigan team so exciting to you? I think the way that Dusty collected them, the way that Dusty got these guys together.

And see, just to let you know info, I knew people who knew Dusty very well in Florida at Florida Atlantic University. And before he got to Michigan, people were telling me about Dusty and he was more of a players coach. And to watch him with these guys and get them together in such a short time, that that’s a sign of a good coach, man. It really is. When I um when I I think back to our championship in 1984, winning the NIT, I’m not saying, you know, it compares to a natty or anything like that, but it but back then it felt so big and so special to beat Notre Dame by 20 in Madison Square Garden in New York and a big stage, big snowstorm outside. I I can’t even imagine the the the joy of winning a national championship. Um, Rich, what what do you remember about that NIT title?

Well, one of my good friends, Ken Barlo, played for Notre Dame, and we talk about it now, even now when I go back and forth with with Ken. Uh, what I remember, man, is being in the Garden. The last time I was in Madison Square Garden, I was 12. Aaou, I was playing with a AAU team out of New York called the Riverside Church. Uh, I played with Walter Barry, John Sally. Had a few of us on that team. I know a lot of people probably didn’t know that, but uh, we go way back. And so being in the Garden, I had friends come to that game from New York City because my brother lived in the Bronx. And so I live down the street from Yankee Stadium. And all my friends, man, that I grew up the two, three years that I was in New York, came to that NIT game.

Yeah. I I loved reading about you when you were in high school. Um, I had heard so much about you. You’re from Riviera Beach. Um, and you played with a guy named Anthony Carter, the greatest football player in Michigan history. Um, you were, I think, only a freshman, but what what do you remember about playing with AC? Well, I got to tell you, I always I always tell people this story. When I was a freshman, and Anthony was a senior in high school, uh, I was a pretty good football player at that time as well. And everybody knew that I played two sports. And we had this activity bus that would take us home after practices because, you know, school is closed. And Anthony came and sat by me in the bus. Now, you know, I was a little excited, but I didn’t show it that he was sitting by me. And he looked at me and he said,

“Young fell, I want you to wait your turn because you will be you will have a turn because you’re going to be a great player.” And that’s all I remember. And Anthony to this day we we laugh about it now though because we grow. How is AC doing now? What does he do to stay busy? Uh play golf every day. That sounds Anthony plays golf every golfer too. And so he does a lot of golfing and uh Anthony’s not like, you know, if you know anything about AC, he’s a he’s a homebody kind of guy. He really don’t go out to bars and clubs. That’s not an that’s never been answered. I was just telling Doug uh he’s talking about moving back to Detroit and so we hoping that he does. Yeah. They couldn’t tackle him in the Big Ten.

I have no idea how anybody would have tackled him in high school. What do you remember about him as a football player? I remember Anthony scoring five times in a game as when I was a freshman and I the one thing I remember is you know you have pep rallies before games in high school and it’s during the year I mean it’s during the during the day and Anthony had never speaks never talks and he got to the mic his senior year and he said the game starts at 8 o’clock if you come at 8:01 I promise you you’re gonna miss at 8 o’clock when they kicked the ball off, he ran it all the way back. And if you didn’t got there 801, you missed it. So that’s one of the things and he was a good dude, man. I I love the way he kind of mentored me all the way up through that through the Ann Arbor stuff.

Well, I I also remember after my freshman year, um the very next day, we took no days off. I remember going up to the IM building and Keith Bostic and you know Bubba Harris and all the all these football players there. The best player in the gym and the basketball players were there too was Anthony Carter. Like he was he was a great great basketball player. You couldn’t keep him in front. Did Did you play basketball with him too? Yes. Well, this is what this I’ll tell you great Anthony basketball story. He was a freshman on a team full of seniors in basketball at my high school. They went to the state championship. They lost, but Anthony was a starting point guard and people could not believe that he was such a good basketball player, but nobody understood that was his passion.

Football he he did because we all did it. Basketball he loved. He just didn’t grow no more. Rich, we um we had so much fun as teammates. your your attitude, your smile, your laugh always energized the team. But one thing I don’t remember is I usually I usually took out the the big-time recruits when they came in. And I don’t remember seeing you on your visit. What What was your visit like to Michigan? Anthony Carter took me on my visit. That’s why, you know, that’s why I tell people when I went out with Anthony, everybody was going crazy and I’m trying to figure out, you know, I know he’s a great amazing football player, but I’m a basketball dude. And when I saw how those people treated Anthony, I was that was one of the good signs for me.

Now, this where I want to be at. Michigan is where I want to be. On top of being, you know, me and my counselors going through the books and seeing how great the school was. Uh, Anthony convinced me. Trust me. Who Who did you meet on your visit? What do you remember? I I remember meeting Butch Wolf, Stanley Edwards, John Regler. I don’t even know if I met a basketball player. I was all football guys. I didn’t see you, but that it certainly worked. Um, why did you choose Michigan? You’re from Florida. Did you have an idea that it was going to get cold? Why did you pick Michigan? I to be honest with you, I I went to basketball camp my junior year there and it was summertime and I gotta tell you, I didn’t know it was going to be that cold.

I had no idea that it was going to get cold in that army. And my the people at my church before I left gave me a you know they give you give seniors going away to college, they get gifts from your church. I got a winter jacket. I’m thinking I don’t need a jacket. I don’t want that mission. That jacket saved my life. Trust me, when you walked on campus at the University of Michigan as a freshman, your recruiting class, and a lot of people when they hear Fab Five in Michigan basketball, they talk about Chris and Jaylen and Jawan, etc. But really, you guys were the original Fab Five. You had Roy Tarpley, Butch Wade, Robert Henderson, Paul Jokish, and yourself. What do you remember about that group and when you got together? Well, the fun that we had in how you know at that time you had to stay in the dorm and all of us stayed on the same floor except Roy and Rob Henderson and we became so close because we came in as freshman.

We don’t really know anybody. We knew you got, you know, we knew we would meet the team and all of us got so close, man. We I don’t know if they do this now, but we ate together every day, all five of us. And I think that helped us bond because when once practices start, man, I saw y’all, man. I look I look at I looked at you and and we had another big 7 foot one kid and man, I was like, this is the biggest brothers I ever seen in my life. And you guys were the nicest. Me and Butch used to talk about it. He said, “Yo, man, can you believe how nice everybody is?” I said, “But we on the team now, so I’m hoping they’d be nice.” I um I don’t know if you remember this or not, but before the first practice, Bill Frieder, he had been warning us about this the whole summer, he said, “I’m going to have you guys run three miles for time.” And and he gave us my time was 21 minutes, which I had no chance to run seven minute miles in a row.

But but I remember I I spent a lot of time training for it all summer and we were on the track, you were there and they blew the whistle and everybody took off running and I was running as hard as I could and and when I got to lap three all of a sudden I thought, “What in the world? There’s Rich and Roy and Butch walking. You guys were walking so casually just talking about whatever.” Did you ever think you could run three miles, Rich? Listen, you certainly didn’t make it but three laps. Listen, never in a million years. Because in high school, you know, we didn’t run no three miles before practice to to because that was an assigned thing that we had to do at Michigan. You know, we had to make those three miles.

And so the first one, we looked at each other and was like, man, I can’t do this. Roy looked at me, Bush looked at me. So we started walking and then we realized one thing. Coach Frieder said that we had to keep running. We’ll go back tomorrow if you don’t make it. And so I think we went back three times before we made it because I’m telling you after I made it, I thought I was going to die. I said to Butch, “Man, look, I can’t do this no more.” And that’s when we started training in the summertimes before we came back because, you know, we had to do it every year. Yeah. Yeah. Bill Frieder was our coach. What do you remember about Frieder? Well, I remember, you know, I used to this this is the biggest the greatest story, Coach Frieder story. My junior year for our first Big Ten championship.

We got to have Indiana practice at Crisler. And so we practiced first and coach then Indiana Bobby Knight came in and they was going to practice after us. But we walk out, but we turn around because we knew Coach Frieder and Bobby knew each other. But Tim, the reason we beat them by 20, we saw Bobby Knight give coach Frieder a nook. Yo dude, we got so mad. Me and Butcher, we got so mad. I said, “Yo, dude, he gave coach a nugie. You don’t give coach a nookie.” Because he didn’t respect it. He did. And we said, “Okay.” And when we came out, Tim, it was like I know Bobby said, “What happened?” We jumped on him by 20 in the first 10 minutes of the game. Did you ever have any interaction with Bobby Knight? No, because not we we never looked at him, talked to him, and then we saw a book that he wrote and said that we were bullies.

That was about it. I ain’t never talked to Bobby Knights ever. Roy Tarpley was was one of the most talented players in the school’s history. uh unfortunately after going to the NBA and um being I think the number six pick in the draft, he was six man of the year. I mean just a just an amazing talent. He passed away at the age of 50. What are your thoughts and memories on Roy Tarpley? Well, you know, Roy was my roommate for three years after my freshman year. Me, Roy, our sophomore, junior, senior year. We were roommates. Uh I I used to tell people Roy didn’t have a drug problem. I didn’t understand why people kept saying that. He had a drinking problem. because drugs were not it and he drank because he was fight you know whatever demons he were fighting that was Roy but when he stepped on that court I think that gave him peace when he played and then you know after a while I think once he got to the league because I talked to Mark Aguirre I talked to Derek Harper and everybody said to me the same thing Tim if Roy could have stayed straight he’d been one of the 50 greatest players of all times and I I I felt sad that because uh I talked to Roy the night before he died.

Uh Don I called I talked to Dawn and Don said, “Rich, you want to talk to you?” He hadn’t talked to anybody but me and Mark Aguirre and I talked to him and we just talked about uh how we missed each other and we reminisced for a little bit because not only did we play together in Michigan, but when we went to Greece to play, he played on a different team than me and so we got to see each other. Uh, I miss him tremendously, man. Yeah. Uh, good guy. Yeah. I I remember my junior year. He was he was still young and he was very thin, but you could see the talent. And every day I would kind of beat him up in practice a little bit because I didn’t want him gaining momentum. And I remember at Ohio State, I got in foul trouble in the first half.

They put Roy in for me. He had 28 points, 15 rebounds. And I think he was the best player in the Big Ten from that point on. You’re right. He was from that point on. I seen him destroy Randy Brewer. Remember the guys from Minnesota and Peterson? That’s when I think Coach Peter realized how good he was going to be cuz he had like 25 and 10 against those guys play like maybe 19 minutes. Yeah. You know, and so when when you think back on your career, who’s the toughest guy you ever had to go one-on-one with? Oh, Tony Campbell. Mah State that played at Ohio State. Yeah, Tony was my toughest because we were almost I was we was the same size, but at that point I hadn’t guarded anybody who could handle the ball like him because in high school, you know, we I didn’t play I played small forward, but I played mostly center.

So, I never had really had to guard anybody that, you know, his size. And uh it was tough, but I learned. Yeah. They know. We had really good coaches. Bill Frieder’s our head coach. Steve Fisher is our assistant coach. He he did a lot of the heavy lifting. How was your relationship and thoughts on those guys? Uh love Fish. Fish Fish because really that’s who we talked to. Fish even though he called the plays, but Frieder made a decision on what was going to go. Uh Fisher was good with all of us. But I got to tell you a quick story between Fisher and Roy Tarpley. You know how we used to have free throws at the end of practice? could just shoot. And we were shooting around and Fish didn’t like the way Roy was playing around in the in the practice.

And he walked up to Roy and said, “You’re not playing because you’re not serious.” And Roy looked at him and said, “And you going to be the reason I transfer when I tell you I never seen a coach move as fast as Fisher did away from that basket.” Yeah. Also, they were tough practices, tough coaches. You played 15 years as a pro. Short time in the NBA, but you played all over the world. Um, did you ever deal with practices as hard as we had to? No. Never. I think that’s what prepared me to play over there because I got to be honest, European practices are hard because we did every day for a month, we didn’t even touch the ball. We did. They just ran us outside and I kept singing out why am I running outside every day?

I came over here to play basketball and not run track and so breeders practices prepared me for that. Yeah. You uh you had a a highly successful pro career. Um kind of interesting. I always felt like you were going to be an NBA player. You played four games with the Spurs. Do you have a career highlight you can share from your time in the NBA? Yes. I’m gonna tell you right away. We were playing the Utah Jazz. It’s my first game and my highlight was a block on Karl Malone. But the biggest thing for me, Tim, is you know, Mark Eaton played. Yeah. And I got an offensive rebound. Tim, I’ve seen big guys in my lifetime. Mark Eaton held his hands up and I couldn’t even see the basket. That’s how that was my story. I was cuz I was like, “Yo, man, how big is this dude?” I could not I threw it up there, it went in.

I started laughing. All the guys on the sideline started laughing. You know, Justin is your son and I want you to tell him this because I bet you didn’t know this either. In the history of the NBA, and it’s been around for 80 years. Did you know that there’s only been 5,200 men that have played a game in the NBA? No. Yeah. So, you’re one of 5200. Both of us have. That’s all right there. Yeah, that’s I’m going have to tell him that. I didn’t know that. Yeah. Um I I talked to Guard Thompson today and that’s my boy. Yeah. He said hello. And he also he he shared something that that you and Paul Jokish and Guard used to go to Elbow Field and play football together. And he said he said Rich always talked about how none none of the the guys in the B nobody could cover you if you’re running pass patterns.

And Paul played football at Michigan. He played in the NFL. And Guard was a great player in high school, too. So, is that true? Nobody could cover you if you were a tight end. Nope. Listen, when I played football in high school, they double team me at the tight end position. We had never seen that. I had never seen nobody double team a tight end. Uh, you probably don’t know who Craig Swoop is. Craig Swoop played for the University of Illinois. Was an all-American there. Played at a high school in Florida called Fort Pierce Westwood. Me and Craig played against each other and the first thing he used to always say with me was, “Man, won’t you just fall when I when I run around because I can’t tackle?” I said, “Craig, that’s my job, not to have anybody tackle me so I don’t get hurt so I can play basketball.” That’s really what I wanted to do.

I played football because everybody in my neighborhood played and so and part be a part of the guys I had to play. I just looked up and was good at it, man. I told you they told me when I was they told me in high school, I was the number one tight end in the country. The high school my high school coach told me this and he said, “So what do you think?” And I said, “Am I McDonald’s All-American?” He says, “I don’t know.” Said, “I don’t care about the other stuff.” How many touchdowns did you score in your career? Oo, in my career, I probably had about 25. 25 touchdown. And And at any point did Bo Schembechler corner you and say, “I need you on the football field.” You know, he did. You know, Bo, listen. Bo called me in his office and one of my friends said to me, “Man, you going to meet Bo Sham?” Like, “Are you nervous?” I was like, “No.” They was like, “Why?” I said, “Because I know what he’s going to ask me.” I go into Bo’s office and I He says to me, “Sit down, Rich.” I says, “Okay.” I said, “What’s up, coach?” He says, “So, when you coming out?” I said, “Coming out for what?” He said, “Play football.” Coach, I ain’t playing no football.

You must be kid. He’s like, “Rich, but you such a great player.” I said, “Colle, when I first got here, I saw 14 players all on crutches from your football team. I don’t think it’s going to happen.” He said to me, I can’t say what he said, but he said, “Don’t be a P word.” That’s what he said to me. And we walked out. He was cool, though. Yeah. H how was your Michigan experience as a student? Did Did it prepare you for life after the game? It prepared me for life after the game. I tell people to this day, yeah, I played professionally and all of those things, but great four of the best years of my life was spending at Arbor at the University of Michigan. One of the greatest decisions I’ve ever made was to go to school there. Yeah.

As I think back to your career, I’m sure from time to time you must wonder how much the game has changed with the transfer portal, but has NIL been good? And and man, how much money would you have made in NIL for four years? We we talk about it now. Listen, the NIL money they paying, if they was paying us that back then, I probably wouldn’t want to leave school. I probably would have stayed at Harbor because we, you know, they paying these guys unbelievably now, Tim, I I’m reading in the paper these the money that these kids are getting and some of these kids. I didn’t realize that say Michigan gives you $20 million in, but if you transfer that money doesn’t go with you. I didn’t know that. I would have been at Michigan for four years like I was.

Trust me. Rich, when you think back on your career, what’s something that maybe you would have done different? You guys were a loaded team, did not have the NCAA success. What are some things you might regret? I regret the game that we played against Villanova. That was the that was my junior year. And I feel if if our guard play would have been better, we’d have went further because, you know, Gary and Antoine were young and they were our guards. And what I tried we tried to explain to them was, listen, we’re playing Villanova. I knew Harold Presley because he was a McDonald’s All-American with me. I said, “We have to be ready.” But I didn’t think Antoine and Gary was so into it like we were because we were, you know, we were older and so we, you know, we know we ain’t got much time left there and they were young, but they realized afterwards.

And then my senior year, we lost to Iowa State with Jeff Hunter. Well, I ain’t mad no more because he ended up being a great NBA player, so we were good. You played with great guards. I don’t think fans today know how special Eric Turner was. You know, Eric Judge, Gary Grant, who who’s the best point guard you played with? Eric Turner. Easy. Hands down. Eric is one of the people, one of the reasons I went to Michigan as well because when I got there, I saw highlights of of Eric and, you know, knew some guys from Flint, Michigan. And when I saw the highlights and I saw how Eric likes to pass the ball, oh, come on. I’m I’m a scorer coming out of high school. I want to go to the guy who gonna pass me the ball. That’s my guy. I always do some quick hitters to kind of end the interview.

Fast questions, fast answers. What’s the toughest Big Ten venue you ever had to play in? Indiana in Bloomington. Did you ever win there? Yes. Gary hit a last second shot there. Uh my my junior year we won. What’s the most points you ever scored in a game at any level? Uh 50. Where was that? Greece. Nice. Against uh Jerome Mincy who played at UAB. What was your favorite international city to play in? Oo, it was a place in Spain and Oh, I can’t remember the town. Caserta might have been Casera, but it was beautiful and I listen I would have went there and played but they didn’t have a lot of money so we you know being in being in Spain was probably one of my favorite places called Jerona outside of maybe 20 minutes outside of Barcelona.

Which uh which Michigan teammate taught you the most? That Garner. Thad was when we came in as as as freshman and Thad was coaching. Uh dad taught us how to work hard. I tell people this all the time. Thad Garner, even when he wasn’t playing there anymore. Dad worked so hard. He ran. That’s how we end up making, you know, those three mile runs because of Thagad. Because Thad told us that, yo, look fellas, y’all ain’t going to make it if you don’t make this three miles. And he ran with us one time. He ran with us and he was old. He was older. I was like, thank you. So, that was one of them big impressions. Good. Who uh who’s the most famous person you’ve ever met? Magic Johnson. Where’d you meet him? Uh at his birthday party in Lansing when I was a sophomore, you know, I was a junior.

I was a junior. And Doc Tucker uh became friends of ours and he invited us to Magic’s birthday party. And so me and Roy and Antoine went and I got to be honest. I’m sitting in this room, just me, us three, me, Roy, and Antoine. We sitting in a room and magic comes in and I tell my friends this story. It was like he was glowing when he walked in the door. And I’m sitting there, we, you know, we got to keep our cool. And Magic looked at us at us and he said, “Call me I Urban. My friends call me Urban. And I was like, “Okay, Urban.” And he said, “Next time y’all come to one of my functions, tell me so I can announce y’all being here.” I was like, “Really?” He was like, “Yeah, that’s probably the biggest.” He closed. Yeah. So, you’re one of the greatest dunkers in Michigan basketball history.

Uh, do you have a favorite? Do you have one that stands out? Yes. My backwards dunks always was my favorites because the backwards dunks you could always do different things like the double pump and all that and the guys on the team used to like me to do that dunk. I did it in the NIT. I think I might have been in was it NIT? I might have hit the backwards dunk in NIT in one of those games. Yeah, I did a I did a two hand straight up and down. Not very important. We just like you to dunk them because our thing was this. One thing we I think Roy learned from you was every time you got the ball in the paint, there was no layups. You dunked it. And that’s what we used to tell Tar Roy. Why you doing layups? Look at him.

You can’t block his shot because he dunking it. If you dunk and then he started dunking all the balls. So that helped us. If not Michigan, where was your second choice? LSU. Was it close? Uh yeah, because coach Boyd and Frieder came to my house, but the first coach to come to my house was Dale Brown. Dale Brown was was was going to come there. I got to be I’ll be remiss if I didn’t say St. John’s as well because I visited St. St. John’s is the first school that sent me a letter in the eighth grade because my brother went there and you know Chris Mullin and Walter Barry, all those guys went there and they were friends of mine. So I I you know St. John’s had a chance, but LSU cuz Dale Brown came in my house and he was he was serious and I was loving it.

I was like, he was like, “This is what you’re going to do. This is how it’s going to go.” And I was like, “Coach, that sound pretty cool.” But then Frieder and Boy came in and me and Butch was being recruited at the same time. And me and Butch was friends because we played against each other in AAU in Vegas. And so me and Butch was friends and he said, “Bitch, what you going to do?” I said, “What you mean?” He said, “I’m going to Michigan.” I took my visit. I was convinced after that. Um, I want you to share with everybody about your podcast with Tom Crawford. I know Tom doesn’t get a chance to talk very much, does he? Well, we have the name of the podcast is All Real and Good. Uh, and it’s Tom Crawford if it’s Tom’s uh podcasting network and it was Tom’s idea and I think you’re right. Tom realized that I like to talk and nothing more that I like to talk about than Michigan Sports. Michigan sports to me is the greatest in the country and Tom picked up on that and me and you know listen I love going to the games and we’ll go and we’ll hang out with Tom and Kevin his friends and listen man ain’t nothing like Ann Arbor you know that you know I love Ann Arbor I do know that Rich you have to answer one last question to tie it up what is the number one memory that that you have of being a Michigan Wolverine winning the first Big Ten championship went in the first one in my junior year. We learned then NIT was good, but you know, the Big Ten for us was the biggest thing ever. And when we won the first one, we didn’t understand how big it was until we got back to the locker room.

And coach Frieder said, “Do you guys understand what you did?” We was like, “Nah, not really.” And he said, “We won the Big Ten Championship.” And so I’m thinking, “So what is that going to do for us?” And it gave us immediate credibility. We had credibility around the country. Kevin, the rankings never meant nothing to us. You know, when they say you ranked number one, you ran number two. We was like, we just want to beat teams. I don’t care where you rank us at because the rankings don’t mean nothing. You know, number one could lose to number five. It don’t matter. So, I had a great time at Michigan. I’m I’m not going to lie, you know, four of the best years of my life and I’m I’m always be a Wolverine till I die. That’s great, Rich.

Thanks so much. You’re a a great teammate, a great player, a great friend. Um and and we’re so lucky we heard your story. Thank you for joining us on the Go Blue Hoops. Thank you, Tim. And I appreciate you having me, man. All right. Go Blue, my friend. Go Blue, my friend. If you like this kind of content, please like, share, follow, and subscribe. And as always, go blue!]