Johnny Wangler: Playing QB for Bo Schembechler & Michigan Football | Legends of The Big House

[Get ready for a great one. Our next guest is a Michigan quarterback, a Big Ten champion, a Rose Bowl winner, and one half of one of the most unforgettable plays in Michigan football history. Wangler to Carter. From leading the Wolverines in the Big House to creating a moment that still lives on more than four decades later. Welcome to Legends of the Big House. John Wangler.

Hey, we’re we’re fired up, man. Welcome to Hail Media. And uh we we’ve been doing episodes legends of the big house. And the guy we have on today, he would he’s the most humble guy. He would never want to be referred to as a legend. He’s the most humble team guy you’re ever going to meet.

Uh we’re here, my name is Jim Scarcelli. I played 81 to 85, but we are here with John Wangler. Wangs, how you doing, brother? Great scar. Great to be on and uh with you and Chris. honored to be on with you two legends. Well, we’re going to get some stories.

We’re going to get the John Wangler story. We’re going to uh I can’t wait to get into it. Um John, you’re from Royal Oak, Michigan. And uh and tell me about growing up in Royal Oak and and going to Shrine. And uh tell me about what it was like growing up in Royal Oak back in the uh the 60s and 70s. Well, I was born in Detroit uh at Hustle Hospital where my mom was the uh emergency room nurse and we moved from Detroit west side uh when I was like five or six and we went to moved over to Shrine in Royal Oak and we joined Shrine’s Parish and then I went to grade school there and high school and uh the 60s were uh a little crazy but it was a great time to grow up.

We had, you know, uh probably uh 50 kids on our street. All the houses were small. Everybody lived close together and uh you know, we just we played sports from sun up to sun down and uh it was just a you know, just a great time to grow up. Uh a lot of lot of action, a lot of fun, a lot of kids, a lot of competition. Um and I was fortunate to go to Shrine Grade School and High School for 12 years. So I have some lifelong friends who I was able to uh enjoy my uh my formative years with and we have a great bond and actually 1976 in September we’re having our 50th year uh high school reunion.

So a young guy growing up in in that area to to play for Royal Oak Shrine that was a big thing and McDougall had it going over you played for a great coach. McDougall’s real good coach. I I got to know him a little bit. talk about that high school football experience playing at Shrine. Coach McDougall, legendary Hall of Fame coach at Shrine. Uh I got in there as a freshman. Uh and I was uh the backup quarterback on the varsity team and the starter on the JV team.

Uh we had 54 uh kids in our freshman class. We had a uh on the football team. Three of us played JV and we ended up uh we won every game on the JV team. Our freshman team was undefeated. They they lost to Brother Rice by a point. Brother Weiss ended up winning the state championship, Catholic League championship.

And by the time I was a senior though and you know how the 70s were, there was a lot of craziness and uh sometimes it wasn’t as popular to play football as it was to ride your motorcycle and drink beer and smoke cigarettes. So by the time I was a senior, of the 54 kids we had in our class, which was arguably the best freshman class in this in the Catholic League, we had about 11 kids left. And we had a better team sitting up in the stands watching us play than we had on the field. And uh coach McDougall was a very tough disciplinarian, great coach, uh tough guy from the east side of Detroit. And he uh you know he lot it wasn’t for a lot of kids and uh it was an unbelievable experience. I went four and I was we were 0 and8 my freshman year.

We lost to brother Rice, Divine Child, Catholic uh Central. We played all the big Catholic league schools. we were in the double A and then the next four year or three years we went four and four and we had we had a you know a lot of good players we just didn’t have enough depth and we were competing at a at a high level and but it it taught me a lot and I would never change that experience playing for coach McDougall and that and going through what we went through just to be able to compete in the Catholic league in the DA. So he he was a kind of an in-your-face tough tough demanding coach. That was an easy transition for you to come to with you know the Michigan mentality where you know they were getting in your face a little bit. So all right. So you you obviously you know you have a good career you play on a you guys were champ you guys were championship last year your senior year.

Did you win the championship trying your senior? No, like I said, we were four, we were four and four, scar, and we, you know, actually, we won championships in basketball when I was high school, but but football, we were we were four and four. And I’ll tell you something about Coach McDougall. Coach Mack uh was an innovator uh in the 70s. You know, a lot of the coaches had a tremendous respect for him. And he called up Bo.

This would have been my freshman year. and he got on Bo about not recruiting kids from the Metro Detroit in the city of Detroit. And he got Bo to come down to Shrine and have a coaches clinic and explain to, you know, to the high school coaches of the state of Michigan and Metro Detroit, you know, why he was, you know, focused more on Ohio. And I think it really had a impact on Bo. And then Bo started to recruit more kids from Metro Detroit. But coach McDougall got right into Bose’s uh face and and and it was a pretty contentious meeting and he didn’t back down a lick. And then the next year after my uh my sophomore year, Bo hired Bill McCartney from Divine Child who was our rival. he played.

And so Mack really was uh one of the first Detroit metro area high school coaches who bro Bo bought him out of staff and he had not had any college experience and then the rest is history with coach Mack. But uh Coach McDougall had a great impact on talking to Bo about you know being more aggressive about recruiting Detroit. So you you uh you guys are forward four and obviously you you’re you know you’re making a name, people are looking at you, coaches coach McDougall promoted you. Did you go to the Michigan camp as a did you go to the camp? Did they have the camp then or no? I went to the first Michigan camp.

Okay. Cuz that’s Go ahead. Yeah. Going into my senior year. It was over at Ann Arbor Heron. Okay.

Okay. So, uh, I was there. Coach, uh, McCartney Mack, Coach Mack put it on and, uh, I don’t know, we had a ton of kids, but, uh, myself, Mike Marshall from Detroit Southwestern, and Greg Castignola from Trenton were the three quarterbacks who were getting recruited pretty heavily in the state. And, ironically, you know, uh, Mike went to Michigan State and Greg went to Ohio State and I went to Michigan. So talk about that process then. So you took did you take how many visits did you take?

Who else recruited you? And then why Michigan? I was getting recruited uh pretty heavily in basketball, too. So I I took probably four visits. I canceled a bunch of other ones because I didn’t want to take visits during basketball season cuz I thought that I might play basketball in in college. And so I was getting recruited at a pretty high level there.

And I told Bo that I was not gonna sign till after basketball season. So I was the last guy in our class to sign. And I didn’t sign till the end of March. And I said to Bo, I said, “Look, if if you you know, you really want me, you’re going to hold a scholarship.” And I don’t think a lot of other quarterbacks were jumping to come there because Rick, as you know, Rick Leach was a year ahead of me. And Rick started as a freshman. So, a lot of people thought, you know, uh, well, and probably rightfully so, I wasn’t the most intelligent guy coming to a school where a guy started as a freshman and who was, you know, it was more of an option school and and I was more of a scrambler passer type quarterback.

And so, you know, a lot of people were looking sideways uh, at me coming to Michigan. But, uh, in the end, I couldn’t say no to Bo. I couldn’t say no to the opportunity to come to Michigan to get a degree. Uh, Coach Mack is is as good a recruiter as, you know, ever walked this earth. And I wanted my friends and my family to be able to come see me play. And I always figured if if uh it didn’t work out in in football, I could maybe switch over to basketball.

I seen you play at the IM uh when I was in school. Yeah. I just remember seeing you play a couple times with you letting the guys you were I think you were a GA. You used to go up there. I said, you know, I knew you could play. Uh Anthony Carter was a hell of a player.

So, so you you know obviously coming to Michigan you got to be able to run the option a little bit. Obviously that was part of the deal that you were going to be I mean obviously you were more of a straight drop football guy or fake you know throwing but you had to be able to run the option a little bit and that was part of the you understood that coming to Michigan. Oh yeah. And I, you know, I could run, you know, before I hurt my knee, I was I was a pretty good runner. And and uh I was not good at the reads on the option. When I should have been pulling, I I gave.

And when I should have been pitching, I probably should have kept. I just I never really got, you know, was great at running the option as far as the reads. I could run and get out there once I got open. But o, uh, yeah, it took me a while to, uh, to get the hang of it. And you know, I backed up Rick for for really three years. One year I was hurt.

I got redshirted, thank God. But uh but yeah, it was a process and I was learning how to run the option. I was getting better at my reads and uh you know, I was waiting my turn to to get an opportunity to to get the you know, starting nod. Take a second to talk about some of our sponsors real quick. Uh John, we’ve got Knight’s Steakhouse. It don’t get any better.

Knight’s Steakhouse. They’ve been there forever. Uh they got they got a lot more than steak. Check them out in Ann Arbor. You got a couple other locations. They are they are with us.

Uh and then of course we got uh we got Valiant. Valiant is is an awesome uh you you need your apparel gear, whatever you need, they’re coming in. They’re they’re a sponsor now with us. They’ve been around. John, you want to talk about Valiant for a second? I’d love to.

You know, Valiant started uh when Michigan went to Nike and Jordan and then I was, you know, working with Adidas and I think they felt sorry for me, so they allowed uh me to have a Michigan license and we developed it where my sons Jack and Jared and Ian Bunting were in school and uh so we’ve grown the Valiant brand for God, it’s only 12, 13 years now and uh we do some great Michigan product and it’s really for the Michigan fans and for the players and for the community. It’s for Michigan, by Michigan, about Michigan. And uh, you know, we’re honored to have a license and be able to supply, you know, the fans and the in the Michigan family with with product here, baby. How about that? Right there, John. There you go, Brian.

Pop two. John, have you tried a OLIPOP? We got to get you hooked up with some OLIPOP. I love OLIPOP. I, you know, I’ve spent some money on OLIPOP over the years, so it’s nice to know they’re a sponsor and I love it and tastes great and it’s less filling. Okay.

So, all right. So, John, you had the great uh great, you know, good high school career. You get recruited. You talk about why you came to Michigan. You thought about playing hoops a little bit. So, 1976, you know, 50 years ago, 50 years ago, this kid, Isn’t that unbelievable?

You were you were a freshman rolling into Ann Arbor. Yeah. Uh, and uh, talk about coming in there in 76. Leach is the returning starter. Who’s coaching you? Who’s the position coach?

Who’s what other quarterbacks are in that room? Talk about your freshman year. Well, there’s about 10 of us in the room when I showed up. Scar. So, uh, we ended up we ended up with about six of them and some either, uh, went to change positions or quit or transferred or got, you know, whatever frustrated. But, uh, Rick was the starter.

Uh, Stacy Johnson from New Jersey was the backup. Uh, Stacy was the only guy, I think, in high school ever to beat Ronaldo Nehemiah in the hurdles. He was an unbelievable athlete, great, great player. Uh, I end up being a third quarterback and they had Roger Bettis and John Cidia were there and, uh, just a a bunch of great great guys who I really learned from. And um you know, my first year I I traveled uh all the games. I spent a lot of time on the demonstration team getting my butt kicked by the number one defense and learning uh and that was a a probably the most uh unbelievable learning experience that you could have.

And as you well know, and I was a graduate assistant when you came in, your experience on the demonstration team going against the number one offense and defense is uh invaluable. And I don’t know if they do that as much now. I know they don’t hit as much and maybe there’s not as much live scrimmaging as it used to be. But the lessons that I learned my freshman year, uh, I think that really, you know, set the foundation for me to be able to compete and eventually, you know, become the starter. So, your position, who was the position coach your freshman year? Chuck Chuck Stobart.

Chuck Stobart was there for a year. Chuck loved his option football. He had coached Dennis Franklin and and Rick and uh you know he did a nice job. He ended up being the coach head coach at Toledo and USC and Ohio State. He he bounced around as assistant, but he did a great job there. And then uh and then then the year after my sophomore year, Don Nehlen came in from Bowling Green and uh that was he Coach Nan was great. he uh he was really trying to uh move Michigan into more of a wide open not wide open but more of a a balanced offense between throwing the ball and running the ball.

So that was an era where they were trying to, you know, we had been so successful in the 70s running the option and, you know, maybe throwing, you know, 10, 12 times a game, but, you know, when we went out there on the uh and went to the West Coast or something and played some of these teams, you know, who were more balanced, we we struggled a little and and you know, that was a point in time when the defenses were catching up to the option to the veer, right? They were making adjustments. they were knocking down and so Coach Nehlen had some great schemes that he brought from Bowling Green and he was trying to you know get Bo convinced that they would work and you know he did a nice job and and but you know again it was it’s blocking schemes you know did coach Hanlin want to change a lot of the blocking schemes to fit more of a pro style versus options so there was a lot of a lot of back and forth but you know in the end you got you know you got to play to your talent and you know it took a while But I think we we eventually evolved. Okay. So 76, you’re third string as a true freshman is damn good.

You know that that that’s telling you they they know I’m here and they have a plan. You you know how it works. That’s a great situation. And uh so your sophomore year you are you the are you the backup or you number three? Where are you at in as your sophomore year? Well, Stacy ends up transferring and then BJ uh Dicki comes in and BJ’s a really good option quarterback and he and I were battling for to second to solidify the backup position behind Rick and then um the middle of the year I I got in a game and mess up a couple things and Bo and I had a few disagreements and uh it wasn’t a great year for me and um so B.J. ended up being the backup.

I was third string, but I was wasn’t doing much. Uh, and so I was pretty frustrated and um Bo actually we were killing Northwestern in the middle of October and we probably were up by 40 in the fourth quarter. It’s about 20 degrees, wind’s blowing sideways, it’s raining, everybody’s under their parkas and he puts BJ in ahead of me. Uh, and he gets to play, I don’t know, probably 5 minutes and then there’s 7 seconds left in the game. Scar, I can’t feel my hands. Literally, I’m under a park now.

And co and Coach Nehlen comes over and says, “Uh, go on in. You take the last snap and let’s get out of here.” I said, “Coach, let let BJ uh finish it out. I can’t feel my hands. They’re numb.” Right. So, he goes over to He go I don’t even take my park off. He goes over to Bo and he tells Bo that I’m not going in.

And Bo looks over at me. He takes his headset and fires it into the turf and all the water splashes up and he says, “You in my office tomorrow morning.” So, so you know, game’s over, we kill him. You know, I go, you know, you know, you’re going to get it’s not going to be a good morning on Sunday. I go in there. He goes, “Tell me exactly what you were thinking when you when you uh said you weren’t going in the game.” I said, “Coach, we’re up by 40. You know, I hadn’t played.

You know, I couldn’t feel my hands. I’m going to fumble the snap.” He goes, “Let me tell you something. If I ever, and I probably never ever will give you the opportunity to get into a game again.” He goes, “But if I ever do that and you don’t go in a game, you’re you’re off the team.” I said, “Okay, coach. I understand.” He goes, “Now, since you don’t feel like playing, what we’re going to do for the rest of the season, and there’s probably five, six games left, and you know how cold it is. We didn’t have an indoor facility at the end.” He goes, “What we’re going to do is you’re going to practice the first half of practice.” And when we go full team, as you remember, we would go for an hour, hour and a half, full team, 90 plays, you know, six, seven, eight hashes. He goes, “You’re going to sit there and you’re going to watch BJ take your reps and you’re going to take mental reps and that’s what you’re going to do for the rest of the season.” I said, ‘ Okay, coach, no problem.

So, we end up beating Ohio State, going to the Rose Bowl. We’re going to play USC and they have Paul McDonald. They’re number one in the country and they throw the ball really balanced. So, I go down as we’re going for the Rose Bowl. I said to coach Mack McCartney, I said, “Mack, let me come down and run Demo and give you a good look throwing the ball and stuff.” And he goes, “Well, won’t Bo miss you?” I said, “No, Bo doesn’t even care.” He goes, I said, “I’m going to go my first half.” He and then I’ll come down and and do Demo with you guys and throw the ball. So for and then at that time we go out there for two weeks.

So for two weeks I hit a ball, practice half with the up front with everybody, go down and run and give demo, throw the ball, hit a ball. Then I go play JV basketball and so I could get out of uh they used to have a JV team mission. I played by freshman sophomore year so I could get out of winter conditioning. So at the end of spring ball uh or at the end of basketball right before spring ball I go into B’s office and I had talked to coach our basketball our basketball coach and I really I really was frustrated with football and I and I said I I think I want to play basketball. So I’d asked coach or if he’d switch my scholarship and he said he would. So I go in to see Bo.

I’m ready to tell him I’m not going to play football. And so I go, “Coach, I think I’m just going to um I’m not going to play football. I’m pretty frustrated. I won’t play basketball.” He goes, “I talked to coach or I sent I I” He said he switched my scholarship and you know how Bo, he’d pull his glasses down over his eyes. He looked at me, he said, “I saw you play basketball. You’re not good enough.” I said, “Well, coach or said, I he’d switch it.” He goes, “Let’s go see.” I said, “Okay.” So we go down his office.

He’s not there. Goes get back in my office. I said, “Coach, I’m not lying to you. Get back in my office.” So he he go I go he goes, “What do you think you should be doing?” I said, “I should be backing up Rick. I think I I should be backing up Rick.” He goes, “Okay, I’m going to put you on defense.” We had 20 practices. We all We hit every practice.

I’m going to I’m going to put you on defense for the first 10 days. In the second 10 days, you’re going to go back to quarterback. at the end of our 20 days, you and I can have a discussion about your future. I said, “It sounds like a good deal to me, coach.” So, I was the second team safety behind Mike Harden. I was taping my wrist from here to here, cheap shoting, overplaying the plays, sitting on the routes, intercepting because I knew the plays at a ball. I go back for the second half of spring ball. Everything slows down.

Scar, I’m making better reads. and running the option, throwing the ball, just you know how it is when the light finally comes on. So at the end of spring, I see Bowie said, you know, you earn, you know, you’re second team, you’re in the spot, and you know, so I go into fall camp my junior year and I was uh the backup and having a great first week. They were letting me, you know, run with the first team in case something would have happened to Rick and stuff. And then uh I pinched a nerve in my neck in our first big scrimmage really bad and lost all strength in my right arm and it was really a pretty significant injury and so I missed my whole junior year. Uh I was I was hurt and then uh came back you know for my senior and fifth year. So seven that was uh Yeah.

So you played for Harbaugh Jack Harbaugh was coaching you for a minute. Who was your secondary? Yeah, Jack was a coach and I know Jack was pissed that Bo stuck me down there and and he made me play and and so my biggest goal in practice, Mike Ken was our weak side tackle and you know how the the free safety you were inside out support and Mike you know great NFL player, great player, 20-year pro hell and he’s about [clears throat] 67 and when he lays out he takes up about 10 yards so he would come headhunting down for me as I was inside out support coming up from free afety. And my whole goal that first uh two weeks was to stay away from Mike Ken cuz I I mean he was so good and and but I learned so much and uh yeah that was uh that was my deal. The safety that little bit of defense it it helped you as a quarterback. Absolutely.

And Bo and Bo was a genius man. He was a a human genius. He knew exactly how to motivate people and uh you know challenge you and put you in he wasn’t going to give you anything but he put you in a position to be successful. Okay. So now we get into 79. Now Leach is gone.

But you do have John you do have a bunch of rings on your finger. You got what do you got? Three. Four all the How many you got? How many Big Ten championship rings you got? Four.

Four Big Ten. So okay. So now it’s Leach is gone. 1979, you’re going into the spring. Are you healthy in the spring in 79? Yes. So, you’re healthy.

And now, who are you competing with and uh what’s the mindset of John Wangler in that spring going into 79? Well, I was uh you know, having sit haven’t had to sit out that year, I was chomping at the bit. Right. BJ had been the backup. He got a lot more experience that year. And then you had Gary Lee, you had Neil Odonaldo, uh, and you had who was the other guy?

We had about Jim Pachure was there. We had a bunch of good quarterbacks who they had brought in. And, uh, so, you know, but basically it was me and BJ competing for that spot. And then, uh, coming in was Rich Hewlett. and Rich was going to be coming in that next fall who was a great option quarterback uh from Plymouth Salem. So, it was re it was me and BJ all spring uh going at it. Uh he didn’t name a starter going into the season during the fall.

Me and BJ were going at it. We were both splitting first team reps back and forth, back and forth in the fall. And then um he didn’t really name a starter uh because what he did and I thought I I thought I did enough in the spring and in the fall to earn that earn that job. I really did. And um but both said what we’re going to do, you and BJ are going to split quarters. Okay.

So the first game BJ started, I played the second quarter. second game. He played third, I played fourth. Right. That was Anthony Carter’s freshman year. Rich was uh Hewlett was probably the was the third team quarterback. He coming in as a freshman was a great option quarterback.

And then then it went that way probably for the first four games. B.J. got sick against Cal California. I played we did a nice job, but we should have beat him by more, but we won 14 to 10 out there. And then um he came back and he started Michigan State and then he got I played a little and I thought I should have been playing more and it was pretty frustrating. And then uh Indiana game he started I he got hurt I came in and that’s when we hit that pass and uh I started the rest of the season uh after that. Okay.

So well you know what John let’s just take a second we we’re on 79. You’ve told told that story a thousand times. Um did you was there a timeout? Did you guys have a timeout before the uh Yeah, before that last basket. I just walk it down. You guys are the score was what when you Sky scored the touchdown?

What was the score? You guys were tied. It was tied. It was tied game because they kicked the field goal. L Corso kicked the field goal. Extra point.

He went for an extra point. He went for the extra point with no with how much whatever I don’t know minute a minute a minute 31. Yeah. So he went for an extra point. uh instead of and there was no overtime then. Yeah. Instead of going for the win.

Yeah. Okay. So, so uh you know and they had a good team. They went to the uh uh Holiday Bowl that year. They had a good team, but we didn’t play well and we should have beat them by more and uh but then we end up, you know, we end up making hitting that play at the end and uh you know, everybody went crazy and well did was there any kind of communication? Uh I mean Lawrence Reid, it’s Lawrence Reid, right?

That’s the that’s his name, right? L.P. Reid made the play, you know, who teaches that, John? who that that is like you know as a as a coach you we and I you and I both coach like there’s certain things you teach your players but then there’s some stuff you don’t teach him and he that was the play of the game that he did play the game yeah play it was so beautiful because we weren’t going to get the first down it was third and whatever uh probably like third and eight and and and Lawrence he caught the ball and he was going to get tackled probably three four yards short and he faked like he fumbled and threw out of bounds. Went right to right to Corso. How beautiful. And he catches it.

He’s jumping up and down, losing his mind. And then they they give us the first down and and then uh they jump offsides and then we call a timeout. And then Anthony comes in and brings the play in and he’s a he’s a young freshman. He’s just starting to really make a mark. But uh as he’s breaking the huddle, he said, “Hey, throw me the ball.” And and I said, “I’m going to. Don’t worry.” And so because, you know, I think some of the other guys were a little frustrated and I didn’t know if they were going to be running their routes as hard as I would have liked.

But anyway, they Anthony was uh you know the crazy thing, right? We did not have a straight drop-back pass in our our uh our offense. It wasn’t in the playbook. Not our playbook. What in the playbook? Everything play-action.

I had to reverse pivot fake to Butch Woolfolk off tackle and throw Anthony at post and they’re in a prevent. It’s the last play of the play of the game. the linebackers are not really worried about stopping the run and uh they’re in a prevent and then but Anthony gets in between uh you know behind the linebackers in front of the safeties catches the ball in stride and uh three guys had great angles on them and there’s not too many human beings if any on this earth who could have made that play and stayed stayed upright and Anthony ends up uh scoring. I thought we were going to have to uh call timeout and try to kick a field goal, but uh he got in and you know, the rest is history. And I think that’s really what put him on the map as being such a special guy and special talent. Uh that really was kind of his, you know, welcome to college football play. What a best athlete I ever played with and what a humble guy.

John’s like, you know, great player like you, humble team guy. I I I was lucky to play with him for two years. Okay. So, we’re we’re going to look at uh some 79 how 79 ended. We’re going to look at some film on that. But now, okay.

So, 79 ends and uh now we go into 1980. Okay. And I’m going to again I’m going to look at that film and we’ll talk about that transition. But, uh you’re you’re banged up at at the end of 79 and now we go into uh 1980 and talk about the quarterback room. Uh, so you had, let me just, you had Stoart, you had Nen, and then you still got Stoart and Nen. So now we going into 1980.

Who’s your position, coach? And what’s the mindset of John Wangler going into that spring 1980? Well, so Coach Nehlen took the Virginia job or West Virginia or he took the West Virginia, right after the season, he was named the head coach. Okay. And so he brought Denny Brown with him and some of the staff and Coach Moeller who had been at Illinois and who was our defensive coordinator my freshman year and who had been with Bo and Bo coached him at Ohio State. Coach Moeller came back and he was really our offensive coordinator, quarterback coach and Coach Moeller during that spring went down to Cincinnati and studied film with Lindy and Fonty.

Okay. and really studied the passing game. And the the single person who had the most impact on Michigan evolving into a more pro style passing attack and throwing the ball and opening it up was Gary Moeller. Coach Moeller and [clears throat] Bo, he convinced Bo that we could throw the football and that we had the talent and ability and and that, you know, it would it would it would work. And so Mo Bo allowed Mo to put in drop-back passing. He we put in a couple shotgun plays. And that’s really when we started to evolve totally into way more balanced and more of a pro style attack.

Now I got hurt in the Gator Bowl. Um and you know they told my mom and everybody that I’d be lucky to walk without a limp again. You know that no one thought I was going to play. And at that time, you know, the type of injury I had was really a two season injury, but you know, I had already been redshirted one year and and guys were not getting uh, you know, a sixth year, you know, uh, now that, you know, they’re getting seven, eight years, but back then, you know, you had to be out in five. So, you know, I had to come back and that spring I I didn’t play at all. I was I I had a cast from my ankle to my hip from January to midappril and um yeah it was you know I just I watched spring ball and you know Rich Hewlett was running the offense and doing a nice job and uh so and then at that point you know no one really thought I was going to be able to come back and play.

So you John the first time I the first time I saw John Wangler my senior in high school I went to the camp you know 3,000 kids went it was huge in 1980 you’re you’re trying to recover I’m a young I’m a kid at the camp I’m a senior in high school and you know we saw we would we’d be in the wait room they took us all over the facility you know how it was and I remember seeing you in the training room cranking on that that knee thing that leg deal with that with the shots whatever the hell it Yeah, I remember seeing you and that’s the first time I saw John Wang. I remember the co the coaches saying, “Yeah, he’s trying to come back. We don’t know if he’s going to be able to do it.” But that’s the first time I I saw John Wangler and um Okay. Okay. So, the season Okay. So, obviously, did did were the coaches they were unsure if you’re going to be able to recover?

They didn’t know what the hell we’re going to get from Wangler come September. They don’t know. No, no, they didn’t. They, you know, Bo was like, you know, he told me, “Listen, you know, you can be a GA. You know, we we don’t know that you’re gonna be able to play again, but you know, you always got a spot. They’d love to have you coach.” And, you know, and and I said, “I’m not done yet, coach.” And look at, I was very fortunate.

Dr. Jerry Oconor did a great job. Russ Miller and his staff were unbelievable. Uh, I healed well. I put the work in, but I had all the resources and all the motivation to come back and have an opportunity to to, you know, be the quarterback. And, you know, things worked out, right?

And, uh, but I, you know, I worked hard and but they, they still didn’t think that I was going to be able to play and even hold up for a whole season. So, um, we went through that summer and Steve Smith came in as a freshman, a highly touted freshman. Uh and he and Rich I think were the ones they were counting on really probably playing that year. Yeah. So the uh first game I think they started Hewlett against Northwestern, right? They did.

They started Rich. Yeah. And it was Let me just say let me John Let me just say this about these names that are coming up. I I was I played with BJ one year. I I played with Rich a couple you talking about great guys, team guys, Michigan guys. you you’re talking about high I mean I know you love them uh love them and uh you know even though you had to compete with them we’re talking about the the you know high high character team guys I know you agree with that look at Rich is you know arguably my best friend I I love him I’d do anything for him and same with BJ you know that was the one thing when we had that quarterback room look at there’s no more competitive position than quarterback right especially at Michigan and you only got one spot but we loved each each other. And look, it it was a coach’s choice.

We supported each other. We all wanted to be the guy, right? We all wanted to to to be the starter, but if we didn’t get that job, that that nod, we were there to support the other guys. It was never confrontational. Uh we looked out for each other. Uh to this day, right, I talked to BJ, I talked to Rich.

I mean, it’s, you know, it it was uh it was it was a the right way to do it and it was a beautiful thing. And I think Bo fostered that. And it was not that we were all very very competitive guys, but uh that was a beautiful thing about that kind of competition. It really was. Okay. So, Hewlett starts the first game, you get in there late.

Now, you go to Notre Dame. I think you went you went to Notre Dame and it was similar situation. Did they Did Hewlett start that game and then I think you came in late again? Well, Richie start Richie started in uh second quarter. We’re down 14 nothing. So Bo uh calls me over.

He says, “I’m I’m going to put you in.” He goes, “Are you you you okay with it? Are you feel?” I said, “Coach, they they cleared me. I’m fine. Let’s go.” He goes, “I’m serious.” He goes, and it was really interesting. It was like a father talking to his son. He wasn’t like, “Hey, I’m just going to throw him in the meat grinder.” Yeah, I know he was cleared, but you could tell Bo had a real compassion.

And then he called the offensive line over and said, “I don’t want anybody laying a hand on John.” you know, I mean, he gave that that speech and you probably heard that story, but uh you know, that’s when I came in and and we came back and uh you know, at the end, you know, we end up losing Harry Oliver kicks a 51 yard field goal into the when the wind stopped and uh so it was it was a it was unbelievable, but it did a lot for my confidence that I could go in there and I compete at a high level and the knee held up. And you know the interesting thing Jim I don’t know if you you knew if you do the math from the previous season to after that the next game we play South Carolina we lose 1715 we should have won uh there’s a few reasons why we didn’t but uh if I threw a ball about an inch closer to Anthony it wouldn’t have went off his fingertips in the end zone and I can still see that play in my mind right now and but so we end up losing five of our six games from 79 to 80 and Ro Rome is burning. We start the season 1 and two in 1980 and everybody’s questioning everything, right? you can imagine uh a lot of dissension and everybody’s and the press is on us and and at that point we we rallied together and uh we re wheeled off you know nine straight wins and won the you know beat Washington and the Rose Bowl but we were kind of at a crossroads. we were kind of looking over the cliff saying, you know, is this going to be uh when Rome collapses and yeah, so it was a real testimony to I think the coaching staff, the seniors, the players, young guys who followed us and you know, we came together and at the end of the year, I mean, I’m not saying obviously I’m a little biased, but uh I think we were probably, you know, the best team in the country.

We’re playing the best football. Yeah. I talked to some of your teammates uh and it’s like you know I what kind of you know how was it like playing with Wangler and you know well he’s John’s a humble guy he’s not a loud guy he’s going to lead by example and and one guy I talked to said we all knew what he went through to get back and that was like a great motivator for you know hey Wangler’s out there and we all know what the hell Wangler went through to get back on the field and uh it was a it was a real motivating uh uh deal for for your teammates. Can you see the film? Uh yeah, I’m going to run it. Well, it’s just it’s just John.

It’s a play you you’ve seen it and you’ve seen it, but I got to show it because this is the this is where the uh this is where the uh the uh you have to regroup. This is Lawrence Taylor here. You’re in the bowl game against North Carolina. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I just had to I remember watching this play as a guy in high school and um so so I’ll tell you uh it was my it was my fault because if you I don’t know if the screen’s wide enough but so we’re coming out of our own end zone.

I don’t know what not end zone, but we were inside the 10 and they they North Carolina’s doing a a a short side strike with their cornerback, right? They’re I’m running a bootleg to the field. Yeah. You probably should have lit back or kick him out, right? And pulled up. Yeah.

Yeah. I didn’t give and I wanted to get out of there cuz that corner was on the line, you know, smoking and you can’t you can’t see it in this shot, but here I need to get I need to get my butt moving, right? Yeah. So, I didn’t give Beck enough time to pull and kick out uh Lawrence. Okay. And so, I got ahead of him and then I made a a strategic error thinking I could beat LT to the corner.

And so once I evaluated that that wasn’t gonna happen, I tried cutting up on him and my cleats kind of caught in the turf and he got me and kind of twisted it at the end and uh you know kind of the rest is history. But uh I’ll tell you a funny story. Um about probably six years ago now I was at a trade show and LT was there. Okay. And everybody’s found him around and you know he’s representing some company. He goes to the bathroom and I see my buddy and I say, “Look at I’m going to go say something to this guy.” So I he comes out and he’s starting to walk by himself and I walk up to him and I’m not smiling at all and I get like, you know, I invade his personal space and I said, “Hey, you remember me?” He goes, “No.” I go, “You sure?” And now he’s starting to think I’m the totally a whack job.

And he goes, I go, “Let me help your memory, uh, Lawrence. Uh, 1979 Gator Bowl, uh, Jacksonville.” He he kind of steps back, looks at me, he goes, “Shit, John, how’s your knee?” He did not He did not miss a beat. Okay. And I said, “Well, it’s it’s a lot better today than it was that night, Lawrence.” And we talked for about a half hour. Then he came by our booth. But he was he was great.

I mean, he was very engaging. And I obviously uh he revolutionized the defensive side of the ball and you know he had some ups and downs but he was he was really good and it was uh it was kind of cool talking to I mean he he he remembered. Yeah. Yeah. So now you’re that I I I wanted to show that play cuz that’s like you you’re about as low as you could possibly get. Can you see uh this film now?

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I I I just I guess to understand John Wangler, man. You you got to know you got it’s it’s amazing. Everybody’s getting to hear that, you know, they no one would have known you played defense.

No one would have known uh our listeners would have known that you you know you thought about basketball. Johnny or actually gave you an opportunity to play basketball or the disagreements you had with Bo. But you go from blowing up your knee where at that time they didn’t know if you’re going to be able to play again to now here you are. you you led you uh you led the team to a Big Ten championship as a quarterback and now here you are playing in the Rose Bowl and and that uh that journey is uh is something. We’re going to look at a few plays, John, real quick. What was the uh the mindset coming out here? You guys were a confident uh football team, ready and roll, you know.

Uh I wouldn’t say we were extremely confident. We were at borderline uh I mean we were not going to be denied Jim and it was the first time we were able to go out there for only a week not two weeks prior right which is too much. We went out there a week ahead of time we practiced in the indoor facility. We had come off and our defense I think was 26 quarters in a row with no touchdowns. Um they were lights out. uh our offense, you know, we could run the ball, we could throw the ball, pick your poison. We were such a confident group, and we were just tired of all the BS from everybody about Michigan can’t win the Rose Bowl, you know, Big Ten can’t compete with the Pac-10, blah blah blah blah blah.

And, you know, some of us had been out there three times and lost in that locker room, and we were not going to be denied. And I I don’t care who we played that day, we were going to win that football game. And um you know we just felt we just felt very very confident and you know we we had a lot of weapons and um you know I this was your this was your best play. You guys ripped them you know you John you talk about not having many straight drop games but everything was play-action but because of that and I know I know having played at Michigan and having defend our offense. This was the best play, toughest play for us to defend I felt as a player, the sprint draw. And you guys ripped Washington with this play.

Well, and as you know, Jim, on defense, you know, the the backfield motion looked the same, but they could block it three or four different ways, right? And so that would confuse the defense. But you had Butch Woolfolk, Stanley Edwards, Lawrence Ricks. I mean those guys, you know, uh they we had some in our offensive line from, you know, Bubba, Muransky, Powers, Lila. Uh it was uh you know, Kurt Becker, I mean, they were we had our line was ahead of its time. We had two 300 pounders.

We had John Powers at left guard, Kurt Becker at right guard, 67, and George Lilja was our all-American center. I mean, we we really had a good team. And uh Craig Dunaway was a and Norm Betts were our tight ends and Alan Mitchell. Uh Mitch is our wide receiver opposite of Anthony. And we we had some good players, man. Look at Look at Bo running.

Fullback dive, baby. Stanley Edwards actually got the football back then. Oh yeah. Ripping full that’s just straight fullback dive. Um I John, I I was a senior getting recruited and I uh went uh to your practices when you guys that they just opened up the building, you know. Yeah.

Yeah. I remember going there. Yeah. And um but uh so there was a real sense of confidence going out there and you talk I mean talk about your team then real quick. You guys uh you guys loved each other and fought like hell for each other and uh it was a it was a real team. You had great leadership.

Canavino and uh and Li were your captains, right? Yeah. Yeah. We had great leadership. We we had great uh you know what we had Jim? we and you know you’ve been on some of those teams is you know when that kids care about each other Yeah. and love each other and would do anything and there’s no egos. You know our best players did not have big egos.

They were team guys, right? And we had a bunch of guys like we had some really young NFL superstar type talent, right? Uh whether it was Butch or Anthony, I mean you could go down the list, Keith Bastik, we had some great great players, right? But we had a lot of fourth and fifth year guys who would have been maybe marginal pros and they had a chip on their shoulder. They had something to prove. You know, Mel Mel Owens, Mel ended up being the ninth player pick.

You know, Mel wasn’t getting a lot of notoriety. He got in, you know, Andy was undersized linebacker. He had a chip on his shoulder. I mean, so you had a good balance of older guys who had something to prove, younger guys who were very talented, were just coming into their own and everybody got along and you know, it was, you know, we’ve all played for a lot of years from grade school to high school to college or whatever. And but this team was special and you know, it’s evident we have reunions every five years. We get probably 70 80% of the guys come back.

They do. Hey John, I got to ask you the the eye black. What’s on what’s the story behind is that was that just the style thing? I you can’t really see. There’s a better shot later. Well, I you know, you know, you they used to say they used to say that it cut the glare off from the sun.

Okay. So, I I don’t know. It could have been a fashion statement. I don’t know. Okay. I just had to um here’s more play-action.

You guys are ripping them with this. Oh, okay. There. Now you’re throwing the football. That’s why a lot of that stuff was so tough to defend, man. You know, you run the draw, now you run, you pull it out.

We got a couple more plays. Yep. How about uh you talked briefly about number one, Anthony. Here you you’re throwing the ball to him here. Yeah, Anthony, you know, obviously I’m I’m a little biased, but Anthony was the best. I mean, he scored Now, Think about this.

Anthony scored one a touchdown one out of every four times he touched the ball. Now, think about that in college football. That’s that’s unheard of. And if he would have had a real quarterback, who knows what he could have done, but I mean, but he was uh Anthony was a great great player, man. Uh the best. And uh great teammate, even a better teammate.

And uh you know, it was it was a honor to to play with guys like him. How about this guy here, man? Look at him. Look at him run around. We want this a guy that can make something happen. Well, show athleticism.

Yeah, even even on one and a half legs, we got about 10 about six more plays. Uh run running P. Yeah, you the second half it looks like you guys are really uh they’re letting you throw the ball more in the second half. You’re getting you’re getting the run. You had the run game. They’re trying to uh you know be stubborn with the run game and now they’re letting you they’re throwing it and you guys are really doing a lot better.

Got the run pass game going. Got Well, I’ll tell you I’ll tell you a little secret. So the first half we weren’t great throwing the football and you know there was everybody was a little nervous and all that that stuff but um so at halftime Coach Moeller said listen and I was uh a little confused on some of the reads and their coverages. They were stemming some stuff. So Mo goes when you get up there look at me and I’ll signal to you if you’re confused what uh what coverage they’re in. So that whole second half, man, I was uh you know, I’d get up there and if I was confused, I’d just look over to Mo and he’d give me a signal as to what.

Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right, John. Look at this.

Look, this would have been a couple guys would have got thrown out of the game today. Look, look how look where these guys hit you. I mean, you’re like two yards out of bounds. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. I remember this one. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Different game, baby. Yeah.

Yeah. Different. Different. Well, we made him pay. We made him pay on this drive, I think. TD, uh, few more plays, we’ll get done here.

Here’s another pass to Is this Anthony again? But, you know, you threw enough to you threw enough to Mitchell. You threw enough to the tight ends where they had to really honor those guys, you know. Yeah. Yeah. We were very, very balanced.

You know, that was the thing. You know, you could really, you know, pick your poison because, you know, you got Butch and Stan and and Larry Rick’s ripping you or you want, you know, Mitch or Anthony or whatever. Uh yeah, it we were we had a lot of lot of weapons. I just I wanted to show that u that North Carolina clip and then you know John and here we are. Look at the year look at the and then here here you are with this guy here walking them off. Yeah.

You know I mean what a what a year for John Wangler you know to uh you talk about life lessons, John. You know you you’re you following Michigan. I’m following me. You you we’re college football. We see the NIL. We see the transfers. you see this that you know and then and then you uh I had a anybody that’s played had that kind of up and down but yours is unbelievable you know the the up and down the the roller coaster and it’s like the these kids aren’t are they going to are they going to get that that opportunity because you you know that that experience you had that year in there and that whole fiveyear experience is like man that’s impactful for you the rest of your life it it really is car and you Um, that’s what sets you up for the future, right?

That, you know, it’s how you overcome adversity. And I know you’ve heard Tom Brady say what he went through at Michigan prepared him for the NFL, right? Because he had to fight and scratch and claw to become the quarterback. Well, you know, now there’s not going to be guys like me or Brady who hang around till they’re seniors to get their opportunity to start, especially at the quarterback position. Those kids don’t start, you know, first or second year. they’re transferring and you know it’s a different game right they almost are incentivized to transfer and I really worry about you know where we’re at with everything right obviously players should be played and you know NIL it makes sense but you know you want them to have that experience that we did right where we grew and and I wouldn’t have traded for all the money in the world what I went through and the experience at Michigan to play with the guys none of us had any money all we were doing was playing football going to class having some fun when we can, right? And you know, so there wasn’t all that other stuff and social media and everything.

So, it’s harder in a lot of ways to be an athlete now. And but, uh, we were very blessed to play when we did, to have, you know, Bo and his staff coach us in their prime. And, you know, we we grew up, we’re team guys, right? It wasn’t about us. It was about the team. And that’s how, you know, I’ve tried to pass on to my kids and my family. and uh you know to be a part of Michigan is has been one of the greatest blessings I’ve ever had and to you know be able to be a GA for three years.

Right. Yeah. Why don’t you talk Yeah. I was going to get into that next. Why don’t you talk about Okay. So you get done at Michigan and you go to the Were you drafted or free agent?

Dallas Cowboys. Free agent. Okay. Dallas Cowboys. So you go out there 19 81. Talk about that quickly.

Well, it was it was a good great experience. You know, I got to hang around till the last cut and I knew I was going to end up getting cut. And it was interesting because uh Tom Landry called me in and he talked to me for about 45 minutes, which you know, usually head coaches don’t have, especially an icon like him, but I think a lot of it was because he had so much respect for Bo and our program. But then I would come back and I was graduate assistant. Uh I lived with Less Miles for two years. He and I were roommates and that was a wonderful experience and we were working.

Uh so you got you went right away to Ann Arbor then. Yeah. I was hoping that I could get picked up by somebody. Yeah. you know, so I was training and both said, “Just come back, be a GA and um and you know, and and uh you know, I know you still want to keep playing, but we’ll let you work out and train.” And so I was, you know, graduate assistant and I kept kept working out and uh so I did that really for two for three years. And I’ I’d try out the next year. I try out with the Lions, got to the last cut, come back, do the same thing.

And then uh I tried with the USFL and that was kind of a a crazy deal. And then uh at that point I said, you know, I probably got to get into my life’s work. I got no money and I got to I got to figure this thing out. So I end up getting into business. So playing playing in coaching for Bo, that’s a you know, I didn’t get the chance to coach. I got to work under him at Tiger Stadium a little bit, but talk about that, you know, what did you learn there?

Uh what did you learn outside of playing that you saw? Wow, this is different now coaching with this guy. I see how he’s, you know, in that coaching meeting room. Yeah, it was amazing, Scar. Uh, how Bo would uh there’s a lot of spirited discussions in that room, right? And Bo would get everybody’s opinion and make them pound the table and defend their opinion and it could be a dissenting opinion from what Bo wanted.

But in the end, he was the alpha dog and he was going to make the call. But he made everybody pound the table and and that’s where he came up with the best ideas, right? And you know, he was a a genius at how to to draw the best out of you, right? And you know, his work ethic, he would be there early and late. And uh he he just wanted to go down there and be around him and and and learn from him. You know, that’s was and it was interesting.

Those guys would rip all of us in those meetings, right? The players. Oh, he’s horrible. We can’t win. He’s no good. This and that.

But then but then when they walked out that door, you were the greatest player. They were coaching you up. They were giving you confidence, right? So it was really interesting to see, you know, that first year I’m like, “Wow, that’s what they said about us in the meetings and stuff.” And but then they kept everything in that meeting and they could argue about who could do this and who could do that. But then when they went on that field, they coached their butts off to make everybody the best they could be. and just uh his integrity, his you know, I mean, all the things that that you and I saw, but you know, there’s very few guys who you couldn’t wait to get down to go to work and just hang around with them, right? I was kind of his gopher.

I’d get him coffee, get his car washed, pick up his suits, run the tapes, you know, around for him and cut the film down for him. And, you know, we were working 90, 100 hours a week for 80, 200 bucks a year. And I felt like I was a multi-millionaire. It just that I loved it. I love being running the demo team when you guys were just, you know, doing the cards. I mean, I I I love football.

I enjoy football. And just being around him and that program, uh, you know, you you’re blessed. You really Yeah. You you were there with guys that went on to have great, you know, Les was a did a great job at LSU at Oklahoma State and then you had Cam Tamy Turggo had a great career as coaches. A lot of guys did uh did great things as coaches. Any any other uh stories about Bo or Handler or any quick uh story you want to talk about them guys?

Any before we move to something else? Uh h nothing I don’t nothing jumping out at me. I’ll tell you just I just we’re going to we’re going to wrap up here in a little bit. But uh couple things about John Wangler. The best tailgate. John, your your mom and dad threw that thing and they didn’t even As long as you had a Michigan hat on, they’ll give you a they’ll give you a sandwich.

They’ll give you something and it’s still going on and it’s just a legendary uh tailgate with the with the Wangler crew. And John, your your two sons played, your daughter played hoop at at Michigan. One of them did, right? And uh Yeah, I just want I know you want to talk about that at all. You’re that that’s something to be proud of. Well, our tailgates, my mom did it for 40 years and uh uh you know what a labor of love.

They my parents really didn’t have any hobbies and really but doing the tailgate and I think I did the math and I think she served over 100,000 people during that time. Um and it didn’t matter if you had a Michigan hat on or a opposing team hat. She fed everybody and never charged anybody a dime and it was just a real family atmosphere. And I know, you know, the kids of kids of kids who’ve come through there and said, “Oh, your mom gave me some candy and a hot dog, you know, 20 years ago or 30 years ago.” And uh so a few years ago, my mom passed away. Uh and then my cousin took it over and then a couple years ago, we combined with football alumni. So our tailgate and the football alumni tailgate are together now.

And so it’s uh it’s it’s it’s really been uh special to be a part of that. and all the relationships you make in the in the in the parking lot and a lot of the former players would come back which was a a wonderful thing to see all our buddies. Yeah. You know, Johnny, there’s so many guys you played. I played so many guys you learned from. I I just had to ask you when you Rick Leach, what’d you learn from Rick Leach? Being the Michigan quarterback, look, I played outside backer.

I started two years, but there ain’t nothing like walking around campus being the Michigan quarterback. everything you do. Everybody knows who the hell you are. Everybody’s watching you. I watched Steve Smith. I watched Harball. You know, you’re being evaluated.

What did you learn from Rick Leach? You know, I’ll tell you, Rick, uh, I loved playing with Rick. I loved being his backup. He was always so supportive of of me and the guys and and just the way Rick carried himself. He, you know, he was under a lot of pressure. He’s starting as a freshman. when he’s on the cover of Sports Illustrated as a sophomore, you know, but he he never he never shrank from the the challenge or the, you know, he would compete every day at every little drill and everything and and he had fun doing it and uh you know, one of the ultimate competitors, great competitors that I ever played with and obviously a tremendous athlete and just a supportive guy.

And Rick wasn’t afraid to uh say his opinion. He wasn’t afraid to tell Bo’s opinion. You know, he stood up. Uh he competed. He was a great leader for our offense. And yeah, I I was very fortunate to have been around him for those three years and and watch him handle the pressure.

I think it helped me having seen what he had to go through. I think it really helped me to learn how to be prepared when my time came. And then I wanted to, you know, having the the blessing of my two sons being able to play football at Michigan and my daughter playing basketball at Michigan. You know, there there’s nothing like that. I mean, I got to pinch myself, right, that they had the opportunity to put on the same uniform as we did and go out there and have the same experience. Uh my biggest regret is that they never beat Ohio State.

And between the two of them, they’re there six years and I would give up, you know, whatever for them to have that feeling at least one time to beat the Buckeyes, but uh unfortunately that didn’t happen. And and then my daughter Ally, it was always her dream to to play at Michigan and she ended up going to Oakland for two years, then and was able to transfer into Michigan and earned a scholarship her fifth year. And uh to see her hit a three-point play, a three-pointer there her senior year and uh wear that uniform. And I mean, it’s you know, it’s nice when you do something, but when your kids do something that that means everything. Talked about John Wley. One question.

What do you what are your thoughts real quick about the Who are your coach Coach Whittingham? Uh Bryce, real quick, uh what do you think, man? Are you are you buying the uh They got us fifth in the Big Ten. I ain’t buying it. I’ve been down there at practice. I’m liking what I’m seeing.

I like the players. I like the coach. What are your thoughts? I’m I’m with you on that 100%. Scar. Uh I I I’ve met been around Coach Whittingham and his staff a few times and I think he’s the he’s a Hall of Fame coach.

He’s everything as advertised I think and more. Uh he, you know, the attitude down there and the atmosphere. Those guys are professionals. They’re doing it the right way. They’re coaching the kids up with enthusiasm. They have, you know, the the cupboard was not left bare.

There’s some there’s some talent there, you know, and I think these guys are hungry. They got a little chip on their shoulder because they’re, you know, people are saying they’re fourth or fifth or sixth or whatever. So, I really have been impressed in watching what they’re doing down there and the leadership that Coach Whittingham has provided and, you know, just his demeanor. Uh, you know, he’s our age. Uh, he was a linebacker, tough guy and and, uh, you know, he did so much with a lot less resources out there at Utah. I mean, he’s a real coach, that guy, you know, and his staff’s good.

And I I and I I really think we’re going to surprise a lot of people if our offensive line comes together. Uh I think we’re going to be a really really great team. Obviously, I think our defense is going to be good. We have better running backs. We we may have the best tandem in the country. Our receivers are going to be better.

And I think Bryce is going to have a breakout year. I really I’ve known the kid since he was eighth grade. He was in our program in Detroit. sound mind, sound body. I’ I’ve seen him at Belleville. Uh he’s working his tail off to be elected captain as a sophomore. He’s a good leader.

He’s got all the talent in the world. He’s finally getting coached up right and they’re going to put him in a position to be successful. I think we’re going to we’re in we’re going to have a lot of fun, a lot of smiles this year with what we’re going to see on the field. You didn’t play until you’re you know really your four third for you know imagine playing as a 17 18 year old kid. I didn’t start till my fourth year, you know. Anyway, I’m I’m right with you.

We got every bit as much talent as the enemy and we got to out coach him. We got to outplay him. And I believe we can, man. I do too. And and look, it say it like it is. Bryce is not going to turn what, 19 or 18 until uh uh September.

September. Yeah. No freshman should have to start in the Big Ten, especially at a place like Michigan. It’s just too much. and what you know, so I think everybody just be patient. I think you’re going to be real happy and uh with what we’re going to see in that product we put on the field. Final thought and um I hope the listeners learned a lot that I you know I didn’t know all about you playing defense, basketball, and and a lot of the different things you did.

You worked in radio after you got done with Michigan, too. But I just want everyone to know this, John. When I think about John Wangler that people don’t know, there’s there’s not a a bigger Michigan man that you know Bo used to talk about paying it forward. You know, they got that from Woody, right? Paying it forward. Mo Mo Mo Mo Mo Mo Mo Mo Mo Mo Mo Mo Mo Mo Mo Mo Mo Mo Mo Mo Mo used to Mo Mo used to talk about to the defense, you know, you got to pay it forward when we’re done.

You got to pay it forward. You got to help the next guy. But there’s no one more than John Wangler that thinks about the guys before him and whatever he can do to help him, the guys he played with, whatever he can do to help him, and the guys that came after. I know that and there’s a lot of guys like us out there, John, that we do whatever we can to help Michigan guys, right? But when I think about John Wangler, there’s, you know, you you’re all about paying it forward and help helping Michigan, helping Michigan players. And people don’t know that.

I know that. And guys in Michigan know that. And John, I want to thank you for that. And uh I it was great doing this. And I know people are going to love it. I’m gonna give you one last uh final comment.

We’re gonna we’re going to shut it down. any any other final comment about Michigan that you want to you want to give? Well, Scott, I appreciate you saying that. You know, um we are part of the greatest fraternity that you could ever be a part of is Michigan football. And to be a part of that, it’s always been about the team, right? And it’s about the players and and and and the fans and the coaches and it’s a special group and and you know, we’re very blessed to do it. And I think, you know, that was all Bo cared about.

Yeah. He cared about winning, right? And Mo and Lloyd and everybody, but they cared about the kind of people we became. What kind of husbands, what kind of, you know, uh, employers, employees, what, you know, and that was really the bigger picture. And that’s what they were teachers. That’s what they were about, right?

And, you know, to be part of Michigan, uh, you know, it changed my life when I said yes and came to Michigan. And I I just I truly appreciate, you know, just being a small part of it. And, you know, I I would help any of any player, any fan, you know, because we have a special group and and uh I don’t know, as you get older, right, things become a little more clear and you know, the you don’t want that feeling ever to leave. And you know, I guess in the end, you just want people to say, “Hey, you were a good teammate and you tried your best and and that’s all.” and and hopefully somebody come in and break all your records and and set it up for the next guy, right? That’s just how it goes. Was at the gym today.

Guy, I had the shirt on. John, you you g Rose Bowl 1981. Guys, are you playing with No, man. I just I just got the shirt, man. I just got the shirt. My buddy gave it My buddy gave it to me.

I I just acquired it. Scarlet and Collector’s item. Come on. Legends of the Big House. John, great having you, man. It’s all great.

Gold, blue, love you. and we’re gonna sign out. Thanks so much, Star. Love you. If you like this kind of content, please like, share, follow, and subscribe. And as always, go blue!]