Jamie Morris on the Heart It Takes to Play in the Big House

[Before the records, before the rivalry moments, Jamie Morris was an undersized running back from Ayer, Massachusetts, determined to prove that heart could never be measured by height. At 5’7, he was rarely the biggest player on the field. But when the lights were brightest, Jamie Morris played bigger than them all. He finished his Michigan career with 4,393 rushing yards, 99 receptions, and 6,21 all-purpose yards.

But the numbers only tell part of the story. 210 yards against Ohio State, 234 yards and three touchdowns against Alabama, and countless Saturdays when Michigan needed him most. In this episode, Morris shares the journey that brought him to Ann Arbor and the moments that made him a Michigan legend. This is Jamie Morris and this is Legends of the Big House. What’s going on, Michigan fans?

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I got my man on here, the goat, one of the goats, I should say, uh Jamie Morris. Jamie, welcome to the show, bro. Thanks, Chris. Great, great, good to be here.

Uh, now you’re making me feel old. The goat. I mean, come on now. I’m just the one that carried it to the next to the next next generation, I guess.

Yeah. Well, listen, man. You know, and we were talking about this earlier. Part of why we do these this series is because not just for the education of for for Michigan fans, but for education for guys like myself, right? because, you know, I grew up in the South, kind of like like you grew up in the South.

You know, we didn’t see Michigan football. Um, first Michigan football game I saw was Michigan played in the Holiday Bowl against North Carolina State. I saw Tyrone Wheatley and Derek Alexander and all those guys. I saw the uniform.

I saw the wing helmet. And all of a sudden, Alabama, which was one of my top schools, all of a sudden didn’t make my top five. Like, I was I was hooked. But I literally did not know anything about the University of Michigan.

I didn’t know who Bo Shinbeckler was. I knew who Desmond Howard was cuz I was lying to people and telling people he was my cousin. But other than that, they’re like, “Are you related to Desmond Howard?” I was like, “Yeah, of course I am.” Like, yeah. You know, but other than that, man, I didn’t know anything about our history.

And uh I remember getting up on campus and uh meeting Bo Schembechler for the first time, but really not understanding like who he was. I just saw this really sweet old white man walking around the building. Had really no idea of his his importance and stuff like that or the wall that had all our All-Americans on there. Like I didn’t really understand the importance of it.

So these videos are just as much for my education as it is for everybody else. So, I appreciate you coming on, man. This is fun. This will be fun.

Yeah. So, so let’s jump into it. Jim, I want to talk I want to start for first of all, you are from South Carolina or born and raised in South Carolina. And then South Carolina.

North Carolina. The Southern Pines, North Carolina. Southern Pines, North Carolina. Born and raised in there.

And then what? You moved to Massachusetts. Yeah. My dad was in the army.

He was in the uh 10th uh 10th uh t 10th special forces group. So they moved around. They were the first in they were the guys that got in early if we in case of any kind of incursion with uh enemies or different things like that. So they move they thought the next um this is kind of interesting.

They thought the next incursion of uh of action was going to be in Europe. So they moved the whole 10th group to uh Fort Deans, which is in Massachusetts, uh about 38 miles outside of Boston. Mhm. And my mom said, “We’re going with you.” And uh we uh he they packed up the six kids, me being the youngest, and took us to uh Fort Deans, Ma, Massachusetts, and I lived there.

My dad would go away for you know times to train and different things like that. And I was I was being raised in uh uh Massachusetts and uh you know we stayed there. We I mean my dad still lives there. I mean we didn’t move back.

I mean we uh but every summer I went down to North Carolina with my cousins and everything like that. But home was home became Massachusetts. So when I saw Michigan, I saw Michigan in the Northeast. And okay, you know, I was watching Michigan when you were telling the stories to me.

I watched Michigan. I watched Anthony Carter. I watched uh Butch Wolf. I watched uh Stan Edwards and saw all of the great things.

And remember back then in the in the uh 70s and the late uh early 80s, you only get three games of Michigan. And we get three games. You get the Notre Dame game. You got the uh uh you you didn’t even get the Michigan State Michigan State game.

You got the Notre Dame game. You got a away game at somewhere. You know, they gave us somewhere and then they gave us the Ohio State game. Wow.

And I would I would watch those games and uh fell in love with fell in love with the winged helmet. That’s what interests me. I’m like, those are cool cool helmets, man. I like those.

So, from afar, loved uh love Michigan. Mhm. Now, let let’s talk about your your high school career, Jamie. So, where did you go to high school?

And then talk to me about your high school career recruiting and stuff like that. Um, if I’m going to talk about the high school career, I got to talk about my brothers. I mean, really, they set the they set the stage for me. I had three brothers and most people know Joe Morris, who played for the New York Giants and everything like that.

And all three of them went to Syracuse. So, that should tell you everybody thought I was going to Syracuse. Right. Right.

Right. But that being said, I mean, look, uh, I followed my brothers wherever they went. I did with what what they did and I played football because they played football. If they would have played basketball, we would well we would have had a height problem but I mean you know I would have tried to play basketball.

So I mean it I went to Ayer High School. It’s a little town like I said it’s the town that surrounds Fort Deon. So I went to Ayer High School. I went through the whole school system.

Uh, and then um it’s hard because we my family was featured in the um Sports Illustrated from my brother’s senior year. Yeah. And everybody and everybody was telling me, you know, you hear the best one is coming. You got to the best one is coming.

So I was the I was quote unquote the best one that’s coming, right? And you know, that’s a lot of pressure to put on a a little a little a little young man. But that being said, it was it it was great. I mean, high school was great and we play, you know, we played football.

Uh high school, I don’t know if it was it’s not division one. I’m going to say it’s maybe division two, maybe three. And but we dominated. Think about this.

And it was believed, but I don’t think the army really did this. whatever that high school needed, all they did was station kids here. You know, they bring their parents, their parents would bring them here. We needed a quarterback by uh junior year. Well, we got a quarterback that came in.

(laughter) He could throw the ball and I mean, we were ready to play. It was kind of cool where the W it’s called the Wusit conference in central central uh Massachusetts. Mhm. And it was right outside of Worcester and everything like that.

So, I mean, it was a good little and it was an aggressive kind of uh uh conference and they didn’t, if you understand what I’m saying, they didn’t understand being in the early 80s, they they um not too many colorful people in the regions of Massachusetts except for the military and we brought African-Americans together. It was like a melting pot in Ayer, Massachusetts, you know. Everybody got along with everybody. But when you branch out into where who we had to play, there was a lot of what what are y’all, (laughter) right?

So I I mean it was okay. You get you get I mean it’s it was what it was. But you pro you learn to it’s a it’s a fox foxhole and this is the military of me. It’s the foxhole thing.

Hey, these guys are with me. They’re not with those guys. They’re with me. They’re going to protect me.

So, that was the that was the mentality. And that was that team thing that, you know, that blended so well with me when I got to Michigan. I understood the team. You take care of the team.

We’re we’re a team out there. You do what the team needs you to do and the whole team concept. So, learning learning football from my brother Joe, my brother Larry, my brother Mike, and everything like that. We ran track.

Uh my brother, see my brothers were like the fastest humans in Massachusetts, you know. They used to run the state track meet and everything like that. They played basketball as did I. I followed suit.

So you know, you try to be the ultimate athlete, right? Uh I played with two of my brothers their senior year, my freshman year. We won our first state championship, which was great. It was uh it was it was off the chain and it was the greatest thing that we could do in high school history and everything like that.

Uh to follow it up, my junior year we won another state championship. And you know, we were touting that we did it with only one Morris, you know, hey, look at that. Which was kind of cool. But that’s when Michigan started coming. uh Robert Bob Thornblade Blade was uh recruiting me and uh I I didn’t believe he was from Michigan for a while though, but it it it it finally dawned on me, yeah, this is the Michigan recruiter that’s recruiting me.

And I went out there in February of my uh junior year, senior year. Senior year. Yes. Went out there and uh really and I was just telling this story to somebody.

It came down to Eric Ball. Eric Ball, remember the name Eric Ball? He’s from Yips Ypsilanti. Eric Ball went to ended up going to UCLA, but he’s from here and they off Michigan offered him a scholarship and I got a phone call from uh UCLA and they were looking at me and I’m like, “Oh, wow.” And the next thing I know it was like, “Okay, I got a phone call from Bo Schembechler and um he says, “You’re going to be a Wolverine.” And I was just ecstatic, you know, and I had accepted the the all of that and everything like that, but I had a big recruiter in Wisconsin that wanted me to come to Wisconsin.

And I I went I went on a trip. I took my trips. I went to Wisconsin. Had a good time.

It was fun and everything like that. And uh it was I if if I got to say the the the pace I I had Michigan number one, I had Wisconsin number two. I had Boston College number three and I had Syracuse number four. And the reason why is that like I said, I’m the youngest.

My mother didn’t want me to go far away from the house and everything like that. And uh I don’t think my brothers wanted me to go to Syracuse, particularly my oldest brother. And the reason why is cuz I always had to follow them. And he saw the stress that that would that would that was putting on me because you know people you ain’t your brother.

You ain’t you don’t play like your brother. We’re not winning we’re not winning games like your like like Ayer High does win when your brother was here when your all your brothers were here. I’m like, “Well, no, I’m not my brother, so I can’t get out of here. I can’t do those things, you know, but I can be me.

That’s who I am.” And um I went on my my trips and I had to make a uh you know, judgment calls and I told I promised my mother I would not commit to anybody till I got home. And I had a conversation with my parents and uh every trip I came home telling them glowing about the trip. Obviously I went to any one of these. This is Boston College when they had Doug Flutie.

Everybody everybody loves Doug Flutie and everything like that. And uh they they were late but they came to the party. It was nice. It was cool.

And uh but I wanted to go to Michigan. I’m not going to lie to you. I I came to Michigan looking forward to going to Michigan. And Chris, I’m gonna tell you, it broke records, but it was the coldest day in hell.

I’m not gonna lie to you. It was the coldest day in they gave us those Parkers and everything like that walking around. I can remember Michigan was playing uh in the basketball game, Michigan was playing Indiana. And in those days, that was Bobby Knight, right?

Bobby Knight got uh Bobby Knight got thrown out the game. Okay. Now the real action. I’m sitting next to Bo Schembechler.

He’s like, “This is a great game, Morris. You’re gonna enjoy this.” And I’m like, “Okay, coach. I’m watching.” So, at the end of the game, we go into the uh the the interview room and he was doing he was doing his interview. All of a sudden, bam, the door opened up and it’s it’s it’s Bobby Knight.

And he goes, “You son of a You had the referees throw me out the game.” And he goes, “Huh, whoop your” and he c he was coming at Chris. This was great. Next thing I see, they’re holding Bobby Knight back and and Bose’s going, “Look at him. Look at him.” Come to find out, that’s Bo’s old roommate down at Ohio State.

That’s funny. (laughter) That’s So, wait, so Bo and So Bo and uh Bobby Knight were roommates. Yeah. Ohio State.

Can you imagine those two together? That’s crazy. (laughter) That is wild. It was great.

It was great action and everything like that, but And you were sold. You were sold on it. You were like, “Oh, yeah. This this is it was sold on it.” And you know what?

I we I was in position to we were over at uh we didn’t have we didn’t even have Schembechler Hall or anything like that. We we had a football building, but you the the offices were up at the main main athletic campus that’s right there where Wards Ward’s uh office is now. And um I remember I was waiting to uh meet with Coach Shimbecker. I followed Chris Spielman of all people.

Now Chris Spielman was there and everybody was talking about him. I’m like, “Who’s that?” And they were like, “That’s the Wheaties guy. He’s the guy that they put on the Wheaties box.” I’m like, “Oh, okay. All right.

What’s he doing on the Wheaties box?” “Oh, Jane, he’s the he’s the biggest he’s the he’s the greatest uh high school football player ever.” I’m like, “From they play Ohio and they play football in Ohio.” (laughter) Anyway, I knew nothing about him, but they got into a fight. So, and I found out that story. Apparently, Chris made a secret secret uh I’m coming to Michigan to Bo. He told his dad and his dad said, “You won’t live in this house no more.” Yeah.

And then he says, “You’re going to change your mind and you’re going to go you’re going to go to Michigan and you’re going to tell you’re going to you’re going to get face to face with Schembechler and you’re going to tell him you’re not you’re going to Columbus and you’re going to play for the uh you know, Ohio State, right?” Chris says, “I can’t do that, Dad. I just called him.” He goes, “Nope.” He sent him there and he told him. Bo was pissed. Bo was pissed.

And I tell you this story because this is what this is how I got into Michigan. It was crazy. And so he yelled and screamed at Spielman. Apparently, he yelled and screamed and Spielman left and everything like that.

And they canled all appointments with Bo. So I’m like I looked at Blade. I’m like, “Blade, I was next.” I mean, what’s going to happen? He goes, “He’s going to come see you tomorrow.” I said, “Okay.” And I’m a military kid.

I wake it up at uh every morning. That’s my dad brought the military home to us. So I’m like, “Okay, I’ll be ready.” So when he came that morning and you know we went out I went out with the players some of the guys from uh Bob Perryman uh Jeff Acres Dan uh good god Dan I remember the fullback Dan and then um went out with them and said I need hey y’all got to take me it was it was midnight I said y’all got to take me back to the campus here (laughter) I got to get up early for coach Oh, they were like, “Oh, man. You going to be all right.

You going to be all right.” I’m like, “No, I got to sit down and talk to this man and convince this man I I I need to be at Michigan.” And they said, “Okay.” So, he called me at . I was up. I answered the phone. He goes, “Were you up?” I’m like, “Oh, I’m up and ready to come down.

Are you down there?” And he said, “Yep.” He says, “Wow.” So, I I got downstairs and you know, we we had a conversation and he he said, “You know, um I want to have you here. I just need to do some things.” I’m like, “I don’t know what you got to do. I’m here. You might (laughter) sign me up.” But, you know, it was cool.

Then he said he was going to offer me and I’m like, I’m cool with that. So, I went home and told my mother. I was excited about it. Really excited about it.

And you know what? Um, UCLA called me and said, um, you know, we just filled our spot. This is how I figured it out. We just filled our spot.

So, Eric Ball decided to go to UCLA, Michigan took me. So that’s how I got into Michigan because Eric Ball who was uh parade All-American and everything and he went to Michigan, he went to UCLA and I got to Michigan. And then when I got to Michigan, Chris and he had those freshman books and they had what you you know, you could read about yourself and everything like that. So I’m sitting there reading this.

I see Jamie Morris WR slash KR kick return, right? Kick return. Yeah. I’m like going crazy.

And so I call my mom and my mom’s like cuz I got to I got it I got to Ann Arbor and everything like that and uh the um Jeff Acres and Bob Perryman picked me up and everything. And I went and met with Bo early. And it in Bo’s coach meeting, he has all the coaches and everybody watches offense and defense and they break down with Bo. They yell and scream.

Chris, it’s full of It’s full of cigar smoke and they’re all in there yelling and screaming at each other. I came in. It was intimidating. (laughter) It was intimidating.

And um he goes, “Morris, what do you want? What’s going on?” I said, “Coach, uh I think you guys made a mistake.” And you know what he said? “I’m a son of a Terrell. This man in here tried to tell me old coach don’t know what he’s talking about.

You’ll be a better receiver than a running back. I I mean, I don’t think you could take the punishment of a miss of a of a Big Ten back.” And I’m like, I just want an opportunity. I’ll play wide receiver if you give me an opportunity. So, I mean, that was camp when I get to camp.

So, I I went down and I was in here in June. I remember when I remember the day I got here, June 22nd or something like that and we were doing, you know, we were doing what the the uh captain’s practices and everything. Y and we were going through and you know, you you look good in shorts and t-shirts. Everybody looks good in shorts in the helmet.

You know what I’m saying? I’m flying around. They like, “Damn, he can run.” (laughter) Right. And so, you know, um it’s really when I put my pads on, you know, it’s it’s all about putting pads, right?

Hey, he goes, “Your opportunity is now.” And I’m like, “Okay, it’s on. Let’s do this.” So when the and we came in a week earlier than the upper classman, right? We had freshman camp, right? Really to learn the plays, get up to speed, different things like that.

And remember, you going to get yelled at every time. No matter what you do, you going to get yelled at. Yeah. (laughter) Good or good or bad, you going to get yelled at.

You’re going to get yelled. And the first thing I hear, watch the guy in front of you. Right. watch the guy in front of you (laughter) because you gonna find out whether he does it right or wrong. Right.

Right. I did that. I I tried to watch the guy in front of me. Different things like that.

Uh and had a good freshman camp and to the point where he was moving guys around. He was moving some of some of my teammates around having them play defensive back and you know I got to stay at running back. So I’m like, “Oh, wow.” And so, you know, uh, then the veterans came in the camp. It was a whole different party, buddy.

(laughter) Hey, it always is. It always is. It’s a whole different party. And it it it’s just first of all, that Michigan Mile, my god, (laughter) who runs that?

Oh my god. That Michigan Mile, that Michigan Mile isn’t really a mile. That is longer than that. I don’t care what nobody says.

That is like a mile and a half. that I said, “What the hell?” My, you know, I’m coming off track season, so I’m I’m in shape for this, right? And you know, I came in at 142 lbs. Wow. So, right.

So, I’m I’m small. I don’t look like a I don’t look like a football player unless I’m putting my pads on and doing what I do. You know what I’m saying? Right.

So, and I’m getting clowned, you know? Yeah. I got on the scale 142 lbs and you know they said well he going to play left out and I’m I’m to tell you this I was hurt. It hurt me (laughter) lie I was I was being called water boy.

And so it was big Johnny though. Big Johnny pulled me to his side. And we know Big Johnny to be a funloving guy and everything like that. Here’s a kid from Ayer, Massachusetts who needed a kick in the ass or a um just a push, right?

And Nick Johnny pulled me to a side and put his arm around me and said, “They don’t know what you can do. I know what you can do. I’ve never seen anybody do what you you’ve done in camp. Mhm.

Keep doing your thing, young man. And I It was him saying that was incredible for me. Right. It just, you know, because I respected him.

He was the first guy that I mean, he’s the first guy you have contact with in in that in in that building. Right. Right. Yeah.

He He knows everything and he’s loud and you’re just looking at him and you’re amazed at him, man. And you know, he used to walk around just the jock strap on (laughter) like he owned a building. Exactly. So, I mean it was it was great.

And then I think he said something to Mike Gittleson because Gittleson brought me back to the weight room. Mhm. And he said, “You ride, you ride with me, I’ll get you where you want to go.” And I’m like, “Whoa.” And he said, “John Faulk told me, you feeling bad. Don’t feel bad.

These guys don’t know what you got. You got a heart, right? And you got to keep you got to keep that heart pumping and don’t Hey, these guys are going to make fun of you because half of them don’t play. So, just remember that. the ones that are going to pick the ones that are talking smack about you are the ones that ain’t going to play.

Mhm. So, I mean, I took that at heart and I just I mean that with I got those two endorsements that just that just fueled me and uh yeah, he gave me my opportunity in a scrimmage and uh we were going I think and I you know you on that third team fourth team kind of thing. Yeah. Going against the number one.

Yep. And um good thing about me is I’m low to the ground. You know what I’m saying? And I run low to the ground.

So um we ran an off tackle and I I took off. I had a 75 yard run against first team. Mhm. And I’ve never seen a grown man get mad and scream and yell.

It was both cuz that’s against his first team. His first team defense, right? His first team. His pride and joy.

Yeah. You know how, dude? You You I’ve never seen a man This is the first time I ever seen him angry. I’m a son of a I’m a son of a What the hell are we doing out there, Mo?

And Gary Moeller was the defensive coordinator. (laughter) Yeah. And he goes, “Bo, it’s the running back. It’s not It’s not the guys.

They can’t see his little ass.” Right. Right. (laughter) So now I’m I’m I’m doing okay. He goes, “Run that play again.” And he looks at me and he goes, “Defense, the ball is coming right here.” And he looks at me and he he whispers to me as he’s going back getting behind us.

You know how he likes to call he was in the huddle and he would call the play and then he he back out and he run offense up there and he goes, “Let me see you get out of that.” And I’m like, “Okay.” And (laughter) gave me the ball. Yeah, Chris, he told him I was going that way, but I bounced that puppy and kept going. The tight end got the block and I’m like, wow, this is great. He did not let me finish that run.

He blew the whistle and told me to get back here and I’m like, did I do something wrong? And Terrell Burton, who’s the running back coach at the time, he’s telling me, he’s like, no, you’re doing all right. Don’t worry. Don’t worry about him.

Just run the ball. you know how to do that’s that’s great instinct. You ran great instinct. And I’m like okay. And so Bo’s like he’s mad cuz he knows hey you ain’t w you ain’t going to be a wide receiver no more.

You going to have to be a Right. Right. You you proved him you proved him wrong. Right.

So it was it it was good. I you know that’s what that was my freshman introduction. But Garland Rivers knocked the hell out of me on one play because he got he was tired of getting that. You ain’t cussing getting us cussed out no more.

I made a cut back. Never cut back, Chris. (laughter) He knocked all the air out of me, but I had already made the impression I needed to imp to make. I didn’t hear anything about wide receiver or anything like that anymore.

So it worked for me and it I you know I’ve been a running back ever since. So I mean it worked out right. It worked out. I mean getting a chance to play right in the game.

Rick Rogers, Gerald White, um Thomas Thomas Wilshire. Um there was a bunch of running backs in front of me and I just count them all.

I think I was uh probably I started out at I mean it was between me and Ernie so I’m just gonna say it was a tie between me and Ernie as fifth string bats and then Ernie hurt his ankle so I’m going say okay I got I got this position then the next person I got this position and you do it because coach would tell you who he want in there meaning coach Burton you know how hey get in get in there yeah yeah yeah it’s it’s real it’s real subtle and uh and and and poignant at the same time like yeah it’s like Jamie Jamie get in there Howard get in there and then it’s like you start to see the pecking order you start to see how like guys are getting elevated and demoted without really having to say anything without anybody saying anything you knew where you stood and that etch was etched in everybody’s mind so if he says give me the third team I knew I was in I was 13.

Mhm. And you like, “Wow.” And so then we then we go into the first game of the year against Miami, the defending national champions. Okay. They come in the to the Big House and uh I I’m I’m kick returner.

I catch the ball and I’m kick returner. But there are some plays that that I specialize in. They gave me if we ran a draw, I knew I was going in because that they can’t see you. Right.

Right. Running. So I’m like I got a couple plays. I got I got to run like three or four plays in in in my whole life.

I’ve never seen a migration of people, anything like that in that stadium. It was incredible. They sing The Victors. My impression was, “Wow, this is like church.

It’s a (laughter) And they’re singing The Victors and you touched the banner and it’s just I mean Chris I was out of breath. I was out of breath. It was the it I I want to do that again. They say we’ll do that again.

I’m like I want to do that all the time. And you know what they say? They say enjoy this because you only get an amount of years. And in the beginning, I took it for granted.

My freshman, sophomore year, but my junior and senior year, those were the greatest times when we were at home and different thing. And you know what I had? It was great how I got on the field. Rick Rogers got hurt.

Gerald White put his arm through a plate glass window up on campus. He opened the door and it broke and he cut his arm. Mhm. And uh we’re playing Wisconsin and I get uh Bo, we’re you know we’re having walkthroughs.

It’s Friday and we’re having walkthroughs, wearing our sweats and everything. And Bo comes back there and he says, “Am I crazy starting a 56 tailback 152 lbs?” And I said, and I’m like, “Who that?” (laughter) I didn’t know who he was talking about. And he said to me, “You, you dumbass.” (laughter) I said, “I’m starting. Wait a minute.” And he walks away and I Coach Burton comes up to me and says, “Yes, Jamie, you’re starting.

We didn’t want to tell you too quick cuz, you know, you get all nervous and wanting to jumble praise up.” And I’m like, “I’m fine. I’m fine.” I couldn’t wait to find a phone to call my mother and father and tell them I was going to be starting in the third game of the season my freshman year. It was crazy. It was crazy.

Getting the opportunity that I got that just boasted my my big ass head. I got big head quick. (laughter) I I was going to say like you you kind of you you branch away from your brother’s legacy and now you go to Michigan and kind of create your own legacy, right? And you know, you you end up at one point you’re the all-time leading rusher in Michigan history.

I think you’re still the all-time uh all-purpose uh running back in in Michigan history as well. Um, when you look back on that, are you surprised or is that or or are you more like that’s just what the hard work and confidence in growing up underneath your brothers you always knew you would be able to do? I was on I to be honest with you, I was honoring them. I knew I needed to do if if I got my chance and this is what I said to myself.

If I get my chance, I ain’t ever coming off the field. You You You ga have to kill me to come off the field. And that’s how that’s the mentality. I Dude, those hits hurt.

You know as well as I do, those hits hurt. And there’s sometimes, and I’m going say this, there’s times I didn’t know where the hell I was. I just told guys, just get me up. And John Vitali understood the former center, my my center.

He would get me up and say, “Come on, we’re going to this huddle, right? We’re over here.” He would help me get over to those hu huddles because I you know what I just want I couldn’t these coaches about toughness. You know as well as I do at Michigan. If you ain’t tough, you can’t be on the field.

So I needed to be tough all the time. I had three strikes against me already. I was too small, too light in the ass, and you know, how’s the quarterback going to find you if we can’t find you? You know what I’m saying?

All of those things. So, I had to be I had to be loud and proud. I had to be I had to be the toughest thing on the field. He ain’t coming off the field.

And I had to make it. I’m not coming off the field. And so, look, there are times I could have laid there and had the trainer come get me. Uh-uh.

No. And plus, my mother said she’d come through the screen if something happened to me. So, you know, my my mom was a very religious woman. Her and God, she probably could come through that screen and say, “What y’all do to my baby?” So, I mean, it was it was a combination of everything.

But yeah, I we had to be known for toughness. And you know, Big Johnny telling us the Wolverine is the most fierce animal and every dude, they had us indoctrinated and everything like that back then, you know, that. Yeah. And it’s and really I had my real coming out party cuz we went six and six uh my freshman year.

Worst record in Bose’s career. Okay. Six and six. Jim Harbaugh broke his broke his collarbone.

Mhm. And it was me who was getting the ball. But if you watch the play, Chris, I was getting tackled and Harbaugh was trying to give me the ball. The ball went everywhere.

He broke his collarbone trying to get to that ball. We, you know, it was a play that I was involved in and I felt bad for it and I apologized to Bo and he’s like, “What are you apologizing to me for?” Things happen in football, son. Don’t ever don’t ever apologize for anything. So, I mean, and then we go we went to the Holiday Bowl and we played BYU.

We also played Washington. Think about that. I’ve given you these two. We played they they they ended up co-ational champions.

So, we played Washington uh in in our preseason game. They came up there, beat the hell out of us kind of. And then we played BYU in the Holiday Bowl. Uh there was a few players that didn’t want to go to a bowl game and Bo (laughter) sent them home.

Yeah, we were we were six and five, but we got to the Holiday Bowl. Trust me, it really didn’t feel like a bowl game because I it was my freshman year, so I I thought it was cool being in San Diego and going going on on a trip and everything, but players that I they had just come off a Sugar Bowl uh last the year before, right? And they knew what a bowl was. I didn’t know what a bowl was.

I just Okay, we get to go somewhere and blah. It was a vacation. That’s how I looked at it. We got to go home.

But we got home. Now, this is why this bowl game didn’t really matter to that 84 team. Mhm. We were home for Christmas.

Yeah. You did it. So, they were very disappointed. Uh, apparently Bo had fired.

You’re all fired all the coaches. He was gonna redo reorganize everything. They said he’d lost it. Everybody said he’s lost it.

He’s Woody Hayes Jr. all of the things that were said about him. And uh I think it was Jim Harbaugh, he got healthy and he he he became a leader. He became a strong leader and he brought this team together. The seniors that that year were incredible.

We got led by the right guys and it was that we became a super team. Mhm. And uh we’re going to talk about toughness. We had goal line at spring the first spring ball day.

Remember it was 20 practices in my day. Yeah. (laughter) Yeah. I think Yeah, it was 20.

I think it was 20 for us or or it got down to maybe 15. Yeah, it’s down to 15 now. We set the record. We We hit every day.

We’re going to do a hitting drill somewhere. We were going to build up our toughness. That’s what he said. We’re going to be tough.

If we gonna be anything, we’re gonna be tough. So that was what we we figured out. That’s why I came to Michigan, too. Those big games.

It was playing those big games like that. Yeah. Which are crazy. And you waiting and you know those that was that was what it was all about.

And then really the Ohio State games, those Ohio State games are the greatest games I can ever tell you. Uh I I people tell me that they ask me about one. I have to say my junior year it was for all the marbles. Winner winner or take all you go to the Rose Bowl if we win.

If we if whoever wins, right? Loser goes to the Fiesta Bowl. No. What year was that, Jamie?

What year was that game? That was 86. 86. Wait, that’s the game you had. Guaranteed.

This is the guarantee game. That’s the game you uh Is that the game you had like 200? You had like over 50 yards. Yeah.

Yeah. But that wasn’t the game plan in the beginning. Right. Right.

Cuz they were playing the bare defense. Mhm. Okay. Yeah.

They were doing all of that covering the the center and the and the and the guard and all Yeah. guards and all of that. And we we came in with the wishbone. We were going to run the wishbone on him. And Gerald White had hurt his knee.

Mhm. So, Coach Burton comes in. All right, we we’re gonna go back to the I. We’re going to do the power-I.

We’re going to do this. And I’m like, “Okay, we know that.” So, I mean, next thing I know, it kind of lightened up. Everything wasn’t so packed so packed in there, right? We opened them up and we spaced our offensive line spaced it.

There was holes in there all day long. Everybody said, “Jame, you had a great day. you. I said it wasn’t me. It was them up front.

They were they were pounding them and it was I mean that’s the quintessential game. You you this is what you hope for. Yeah. And that dream came true.

I got a chance to participate in an Ohio State Michigan game that I as a kid I dreamt about, you know, and it’s just you’re like, “Wow, this is what it’s all about.” And it was just, you know, it was surreal. That’s what I’ll say. And you got Bo Shimbeck on the sidelines. You got um uh what’s his name on the other side of the field?

Was Woody Woody was still there or no? No, Woody wasn’t there. His his um um the other guy uh Yeah. after him. Uh wasn’t there very long.

Uh Earl No, it wasn’t. Was it Earl? Was it Was it Earl Bruce? Yeah, it was Earl Bruce.

Yeah, it was Earl Bruce. Yeah. And he, you know, I guess and then my senior year, Earl Bruce came up here and they they they decide to fire Earl Bruce and told him this was his last game. The Michigan game was his last game.

And I’m like, what the hell? Yeah. They don’t do that. He wasn’t there.

He wasn’t there very long. No. No. And so, you know, it was that that was uh but see the career was it it was about people.

You know what I’m saying? I still I still talk to my offensive lineman. I still talk to I hell I talk to Jim Harbaugh. I mean, I still talk to these guys and have fun with him and everyone.

And I saw Mark Mesdner just uh couple days ago. So, we, you know, I have a great time with my teammates and everything. So, it’s been great. And, you know, being a Michigan man, I look, I don’t care what you say about it or anything like that.

If you say it’s corny and different things, it’s just great to be with guys that have done it the way we’ve done it. You know, I I I the kids that play now, they’re all Michigan. I mean, look, people say, “Do we count Rich Rod?” like, “Hell yeah, we count Rich Rod, right? He was part of the lineage.” For me, you know, I got a chance to to win a national championship at Michigan, right?

But I try to tell people because they only want to remember that year, right? I’m like, listen, 94, 95, and 96 built that 90 team. That’s what everybody. We had to go through some We had to go through some We had to go through adversity.

We had, I think, eight and four, eight and five seasons, three years in a row. We lost our coach. So, that was kind of like the quote unquote national embarrassment at the time, right? Um, you know, we weren’t living up to the Michigan standard by by any stretch.

We had all the talent in the world, but we weren’t measuring up to what the standard was. And so as much as I try to tell people like we look at our our our gloried history, you know, there are some patches in there where it’s not so glorious. Right. Right.

No, you’re right. Those years built what was to come. And if you don’t have 94, 95, 96, that 97 doesn’t exist. Because at that point, we were so hardened, right? and and so like kind of fed up, right?

Being called, you know, M stands for mediocre and then, you know, you have to be the guy or looked at as the guys who kind of dropped the ball, right, as far as carrying on the Michigan legacy that hardens you, right? I think Bo, you can um attest to this, but I think Bo even said like winning makes you soft, right? And you know, as much as you love to win and dynasty this and dynasty that, guys get comfortable, right? They get comfortable.

You start getting bowling alleys and barber shops and all this stuff given to you. And um before you know it, the guys that knew what it was like to struggle are no longer there, right? They’re not there. Those guys have graduated and went on with the rest of their lives.

And you got the guys that are, “Oh, wow. This is what we do.” Like, “This is nice.” Like, right? They walk into locker room, away room, they’re like, “Wow, this is nice, man.” Okay. Like, you don’t know what it’s like to see your locker door damn near falling off.

And (laughter) or the smell of the locker room or this or that. I mean, all the things that we put in, the hard work we put in there. I mean, there’s not a player, former player that doesn’t come back and look around Schembechler Hall now and says, “Boy, if we had this, we’d have won a whole bunch of national championship.” (laughter) You know what’s funny is I was talking to James Hall uh yesterday and I sent them a video of some new building they built on on campus. It was like it was like I think it was like to replace the CCB or something like that and it was I mean it was just immaculate.

It was absolutely beautiful. And James was like, he’s like, they barely even fed us. (laughter) He’s like, we got like one meal a day. A lot of times we were looking for food to eat.

And uh he’s like, we didn’t have no damn nutritionists and shakes and (laughter) James said he came in at like and Mike Gittleson was like, “Hey, like what we gonna do, Jay?” He was like, “You got to put on weight.” And James was like, “Well, I’m from like New Orleans, St. You know, like I don’t know how to put on weight.” And there was no one there to that didn’t tell you how to put on weight. You just go eat, you go out and there was no other than that, there was no plan. So, yeah, we we talked about that, man, and we were dying laughing.

But again, like you have to go through some hardship, especially at Michigan. You have to go through some hardship in order to build back up that callous, right? No, that’s exactly right. And that’s that’s the that’s the toughest thing.

I mean I mean now look at us now. They had a hardship. They they had hardship. And I that’s why I think this coach and his coaching staff can do do their job because this co this this team, they went through some hardship.

They lost their coach. That coach was something special to them. He was that guy. And you know, whatever happened happened.

And now they’re hungry. They need they they want to prove the the quarterback’s got to prove who he is. The the offensive line got to pull prove who they are. You got guy you got a whole team that wants to prove to everyone we’re that Michigan that you remember.

Yeah. Absolutely. I I think and and when you know everything kind of went down I was you know Michigan got really lucky in the fact that you had a coach like Kyle Woodyham available right because to me he was he was the closest thing to old school Michigan that you were ever going to come across right now I’m not saying other schools don’t preach discipline don’t preach toughness don’t preach um you know uh you know mental toughness and and grinding it out. I’m not saying that they don’t do that, but I don’t know of a coach that comes from that era, right, that understands the real value of what that era brought to um to football, right?

Correct. And have it to translate to to today’s football. Michigan could not have asked for a better coach to than Kyle Woodyham to take over the helm at this time because what Michigan needed was not just a course correction but a discipline correction, a mental tough correction. And he fits the bill on that.

No, he’s he he’s going to do a great job. I think he’s going to do a great job. He’s got discipline. He’s got all the things that I’m gonna say he’s closer to Bo than anybody I’ve seen.

Yeah. From the outside. From the outside. He’s closer to Bo and his philosophy.

And you know, he always says, “I didn’t come here to reestablish or build my own Michigan.” Yes, you did. You are the coach of Michigan, Michigan football. We go as you go. What you say, we say.

We live that way. And you know, I I’m not trying to, you know, tell them you got to do this and do that. No, I’m just saying you’re you’re the head coach and Michigan players, former players, they understand what that position means. Mhm.

And they fly the way you fly. They’ll defend you to the end if they have to. And so, you know, I said that the they you you can give them orders and you give the uh former players orders, they’ll listen to you, too. That’s just how we are.

Exactly. We will circle wagons, man, when it comes to this this this program and this this institution and and it’s it’s just bigger than, you know, we always talk about it’s always bigger than just one man, right? Of course, you know, we talk about the teen team. It’s just always bigger than just one person. and we embrace everyone who’s come in to take over the mantle, you know, at Michigan.

And even if you leave, right, like you said, whether it’s Rich Rod or anybody else, true diehard Michigan people who’ve kind of like bled for the program, understand that, right? And um and so I I you know, I I love the direction that we’re going in. Have you seen any practices, Jamie? I did go to one practice.

It was great. I think it was it it was they get after one another. He is he is if he’s he is the oldest of the old schools I’ve seen around now. He I mean he gets after he lets them he lets them get after it but he he pulls them he he knows how to pull them back too.

So he and they’re always running. They’re always running to every drill, everything. They’re always running to everything they do. So and he’s got the discipline.

There’s discipline everywhere. You can hear everybody when he raises his voice. You hear him, but he lets his coaches coach. That’s the most important thing.

Mhm. That’s good, man. That’s good. James, before before we get out, man, I want to ask you, what is your your greatest takeaway from your college experience at Michigan?

Well, being that I was probably eight years old and I fell in love with Michigan and those winged helmets and everything like that, the greatest the greatest thing that for Michigan, I got to play for the the great one of the greatest coaches in college football. Um, I got to go to one of the most prestigious universities uh in in this universe and um I got the best friends that I keep getting. I get new friends every year because the they keep graduating these young men and they are the greatest the greatest people in this world. They understand what it takes to be a Michigan man.

And I I’m not I’m not saying we’re better than anybody else, but it’s a special kind of person, a special kind of place. Not many can I I don’t think a lot of people could s sustain or live through what we live through. All the all the turmoil and everything that we go through that people expect us to go through. Like you said, Chris, you build up all of this all of this animosity towards Michigan and everything like that.

But that’s that makes me feel good. I feel good about that. I do because you know what? We must be doing it right then, right?

You know, and look, for me, I I we we got to beat Spartans. We got to beat Ohio State. And I look for me, I I’m not like most people. I want them to win every game until they meet us.

I want Ohio State to win every game until they meet us. Cuz I want I want it to be cuz it is the game. It is the game. And you know what?

I don’t cheer for Ohio State. Anything that’s got state in it, I don’t really care about it. Penn State either, but I’m just saying, right? But the greatest thing that I have is is that we keep building the the the foundation.

It’s just building the foundation. Yeah. And actually Jamie a lot. Last question.

How excited are you about Seavon Haidider? I’m at the bat. (laughter) Let me tell you something. That boy had a five yard run.

I explained that run to everybody I think for an hour. Just the way he he looks. He cuts. He on the inside foot.

He’s not doing this. He’s doing got that outside foot, but that inside foot’s right there. He’s But he’s not going to fall and everything like that. Everybody goes, “Wow, you really taking a look at I’m like, right.

Yeah.” I said, “This is the most ready running back that we’ve him and Tyrone Wheatley.” Yeah. Him and Tyrone Wheatley. But he is the most ready runner. I mean, I I went like this.

Maybe it’s his clicks. I I’m looking like I’m looking at that kid. I’m like, damn, he’s he’s the total package. And I look, Jordan Marshall is one of the toughest kids I’ve ever seen.

And he look a one-two punch. One, two punch. Yeah. Yeah.

I said the same thing, man. When I watched his film, I think I ended up calling my a buddy of mine. I said, “Man, I’m going to tell you.” I’m like, “This kid can go.” Yes. Like, and I understand I was watching his high school highlight, but there was something that was just different about his style of running, his balance.

On top of that, his speed, there are guys that you just look at and they just separate themselves from everybody else. And Savon Haidider was reminds me of Adrien Peterson. That Yes. Who he reminds me of?

Adrien Peterson when he came in his freshman year Mhm. he was he was instant. He was like, “Wow.” You were like, “I’m here.” Right. Yeah. I he he can go, man.

I I’m excited about him. Um Jordan is Jordan is going to be, you know, obviously I think the guy, but I think to your point is going to be 1 A and 1B, right? There’s not going to be any drop off. Initially, I thought maybe like he would get like maybe, you know, six to eight touches a game, but I think it’s going to be even more than that because he’s just that special.

Going to run the ball. It’s going to be Michigan football. We’re going to run the ball, but they going to th I’m telling you, they going to don’t look for that ball to be in the air, too, because you got some wide receivers here now. They can catch and they can run.

Yeah. I mean, this is a new system, too. you. We haven’t seen it yet. Yeah, you can go watch Utah film, but they ain’t got these kind of players, right?

So, well, I’m excited, man. Jamie, brother, I appreciate you uh coming on the podcast. You know, I’m going to be up there September 5th for the first game of the year. We gonna definitely hang, man.

Can’t wait to see you, brother. And uh yeah, man. I appreciate you coming on. No, thank you.

I appreciate it, Chris. And hey, I’m glad. And we go, hey, we gonna have a good time. (laughter) There we are, man.

I appreciate you, Jamie. Take care, brother. Thanks. Appreciate it.

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