1965 Rose Bowl No. 4 Michigan v No. 8 Oregon St | Throwback Film Review w/Mike Bass & Tom Parkhill!

[Hello everybody. This is Greg Dooley and I’m a full-time lecturer at the School of Education at U of M where I teach three courses including the history of college athletics. And the team we’re going to talk about here in a couple minutes is one of my favorite. It’s one of the favorites of my students. In fact, they do indeed read a full article and interview about this team because I think it’s really special. But before we get into that, I do have something kind of exciting. We actually just published something called the history of Michigan football, what we’re calling volume 1. It’s going up from the origins of the program up to 1927. It’s 12 lectures, 7 hours of content, hundreds of images, six guest historians, and it really takes you up through that uh volatile period of really fueling Yo’s heyday as a coach, right?

And that’s volume one. volume two that we’re talking about doing actually is going to bring us up to when? Well, 1964. Why is that? Because so many people point to 1969 as that key pivot point in Michigan football history. Really, the launch of the bow era, of course. But, uh, I don’t think you can ignore the team we’re going to talk about today because we had not been to the Rose Bowl since 1951. And that was right after the epic snowball game against Ohio State. And of course, we went to that Rose Bowl. But after that season, Ohio State hired Woody Hayes and he changed the dynamics in college football and certainly in the Big Ten. And if you caught me on the last time I introduced one of these pieces, that era of Big Ten football was wildly competitive where over about an 11-year period, eight different Big Ten teams actually claimed a Big Ten title.

So, this was a far cry from the Big Two and Little Eight that we would get when Bo arrived. So, we needed a breakthrough and we got it in this season of 1964. And I feel like this team really filled the cupboard of recruits that followed the next two years for Bo and for 1969 and really set us off really into the future of Michigan football. Now, this team of course inches from a national title. Why do I say that? A failed two-point conversion in the Purdue game where Bump elected to go for two. with coach Bump Elliottt, of course. And I talked to Bump about that before he passed. He actually later regretted the play call a little bit of what he chose. He actually went right back to their all-American quarterback, Bob Timberlake.

It was their best play, but Timberlake was a little winded on that play. And so, but other than that, it has the hallmarks of all the great teams. They beat Ohio State. They won the Big Ten Championships. And of course, they won the Rose Bowl. So, they are in the pantheon of great teams. And I feel like they’re they’re often forgotten. You know, players like Tom Mack, Bob Timberlake, Bill Yerby, Mel Anthony, Dick Sygar, you know, Dave Fisher, Frank Nunley, aka the Fudgehammer, right? Later his nickname, Barry Dyn. And you can’t forget about the captain, my friend Jim Conley, who I got to know over the years, who really told the story of this team that my students today at Michigan really read about. He passed away last year, uh, but not forgotten.

This this epic team. And the last thing I’ll say about this, and this is something I point out in my classes at Michigan, is the gauntlet, not only in the Big Ten, but with the non- Big10 schedule. Consider they played number six Navy and returning Heisman winner Roger Staubach. Okay, we won at MSU when they were a powerhouse back then with Duffy Daugherty and a young Bubba Smith. Okay, Purdue with great Hall of Fame quarterback Bob Griese. Illinois with linebacker Dick Butkus. And of course, Dr. Strange Hayes himself, Woody Hayes, who’s already run off national championships and has another great team at number seven Ohio State. That was the gauntlet we faced. And then of course, a top 10 Oregon State team in the granddaddy of them all.

All right, so wrapping up, if you want more information about this new history of Michigan football course, volume 1, head to mvvictors.com or check out the link in the show notes. I have to shout out for that project and we have to shout out the Bentley Historical Library for all the footage that you see today and all the images in the course we created particularly Jay Winkler also Hail Media of course and the Football Alumni Association of Michigan that’s fam. And without further ado, let’s dive into the granddaddy of them all, the 1965 Rose Bowl for this edition of Throwback Film Review with Jim Scarcelli. This time we got special guests, members of that 1964 team, Mike Bass and Tom Parkhill. Go Blue. All right, man.

We are here and I am excited. We got another episode. I’m just so privileged to talk to two guys from the 1964 team. I’ve got Mike Bass out of Ypsilanti, Michigan, and I’ve got Tom Parkhill. And uh Mike, why don’t you just start off, man? Why don’t you just tell us uh tell us a little about yourself, who you are, how did you end up at how did you end up at Michigan, and uh we’ll go from there. Well, uh I was born and raised in Ypsilanti, seven miles away, and I guess I was a big fish in a small pond. I had uh had some success in high school in three different sports, uh football, basketball, and track. And uh uh it was not a foregone conclusion that I was going to be going to Michigan.

I went all over the country looking at schools and so forth. And what actually made the decision for me was my wife Rosita, who I’m married to now, uh we had known each other since we were in kindergarten. Uh she had gone to Michigan State and uh Boom. Yeah, that’s exactly right. And I think that the final decision to go to Michigan was based on the fact that uh the Michigan State coaches tried to use her to recruit me and that was the main thing that’s that uh actually convinced me that it was Michigan where I wanted to go. My father was a doctor. My mother was a teacher. He practiced medicine for some 40 years in Ypsilanti. And the backbone of our existence, my two sisters and I, was education.

And although I had no preconceived notions that I was going to uh do much in football, it was the fact that the scholarship was going to give me uh a free education. And uh that along with uh not wanting to go to Michigan State uh caused me to make that decision. Not caused me, but was the deciding factor in my ended up ending up going to Michigan. And uh Mike, can I ask you a question, coach? Go ahead. This is your show, guys. Yeah. And that is Jimmy was talking about scholarships to me uh yesterday, and I don’t remember anybody losing their scholarships back in 1963, 4, and five. I might be wrong as hell, but uh what’s your memory of that? room, board, books, tuition, and fees.

Okay. And that we and once you signed, you got that no matter what, except if you flunked out. I agree with you. And uh where I think from what I understand now, it’s a year-to-year situation, which puts all of the decision making situations uh in the hands of the the coaches. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I don’t think I don’t agree with that. Uh I really don’t you make the commitment uh to give someone a scholarship. Uh and I think it boils down to one of the 9 minutesreasons why we’re having so many problems, you might say, with NIL and all this is because of the greed of the schools and the NCAA. It’s more about making money than taking care of the student athlete who is actually making the money so that the university can hire some of these great uh academic people that they hire.

So I agree with you. I remember and that was very important room. Yeah. WS tuition and fees and even a summer job. Yeah. Tom, tell me about talk to me Tom. How how did you end up at Michigan? How did that play out? Why Michigan? And how’d that how’d that come about? Okay. Well, uh I wanted to be Woody Hayes’s quarterback at Ohio State. And uh he picked a guy by the name of uh oh god uh I’ll think of it in a second here. Okay. And he he was from Limo, Ohio, and he became Woody’s quarterback. Well, uh, my I have to give I go back in history because I lived with my grandfather for all 18 years of, you know, my growing up and high school and all that.

We live right on Main Street in Ada, Ohio. Okay. And my grandfather was uh at Ohio Northern University in my hometown and he uh was basically uh teaching engineering to students and I’m I’m backing up here and if if you tell me to land a plane I will. Uh he he got a call from Fielding Yostt and he said Tom Small Smll get your butt up to Ann Arbor in 1904 which was appointed men of team and I never knew that Michigan played Ohio Northern University the little school down there in Ada Ohio but they did and that’s where he met uh that’s where he met Fielding Yost. Okay. So, uh, my uncle, uncle Tom went to Ohio Northern and got his degree and then he went to Michigan and got his aeronautical engineering degree and then he joined NASA and then he was able to get three buildings built at North Campus.

So when that thing happened with Tom Bington was his name the quarterback uh he started sending letters to Bump and that’s pretty much how I got to Ann Arbor. I just know when when Bo came to my house recruiting me he didn’t even talk to me. He talked to my mom and dad the whole time. [laughter] How do you guys do you guys remember did bump did did they come to your house back then and make a home visit? I had a home visit, but it was not bump. It was uh the guy that was at Bowling Green and he had K he had a kid or two that came to Michigan, but that’s who came to my house. Okay. Well, uh no one actually came to my house.

As I mentioned to you earlier, my father was a doctor. As a matter of fact, he uh got his medical degree from Meharry in Tennessee. uh and he moved to Michigan and he got a degree in public health from from uh from Michigan and uh my folks didn’t try to influence me but they always concentrated on and preached about education education education. Yeah. and and consequently uh when I in making my decision along with what I’ve already said, it was the prestige of getting a degree from Michigan that that uh that I was most interested in and not so much uh football. But because I had a GPA that was decent, I think maybe they didn’t feel they needed to do much recruiting. So I never got a visit.

I did meet uh Bob Holloway who uh was a basketball referee and I spoke with him after one of our basketball games in high school. Uh but I didn’t Let me interrupt you again because I get I get these things and and then but if I don’t say them then I’ll forget them. Mallerie Mallerie was the guy that came to my house. Okay. And he had kids that played at Michigan. Oh, okay. I’m going to show you guys. Can you guys see the roster there? Yes. Yeah. All right. I just wanted to go over this real quick because I wanted to just look at uh what the recruiting was like where your team was primarily. So, let’s just look at the state here. Let’s start from the top.

You got Michigan, Ohio, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Illinois, Ohio, Michigan, Ohio, Michigan, Michigan, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Ohio, Michigan, Michigan. Little Here’s a Virginia. One guy from Virginia, Ohio, Tennessee, one Tom Goss. Yeah. Okay. I played with his um God is is his son or his nephew. One of them. Uh Ohio. Ohio. Anyway, you guys get the you guys get the point. It’s it’s Ohio. It’s Michigan. A little bit of P. Here’s a Kentucky. Little Texas. Uh you know, I just wanted you guys to see that. And uh let me get back to you guys. Okay. Uh anyway, it looks like because you know Bo’s philosophy was Michigan, Ohio, Illinois, a little bit of Indiana. It looked like it it was a lot of that Midwest guys when you played.

Chicago was another place that we got a lot of good athletes from. Yeah. Okay. Uh I’m going to start this question for you then, Tom. Let me just ask you the culture of the 1964 football team. If someone asked you like was, you know, were we a tight group? Were we a unified group? Uh you know, did we get along? Did the seniors Did the seniors respect the freshman? Did was there a sense of a team where people cared about each other? How how would you describe the culture of the 1964 because you guys were Mike, you were a sophomore and Tom, you were a junior on that team. How how would you describe the culture of that team, Tom? Well, first of all, I got to tell you, uh that was my first road game.

Okay. There were 44 guys that played I for the the game at Ohio State that we won 10 to nothing. Free goofer opened up the window and it was 20°. But when I went back down to the locker room where the guys had their roses and all that, Jacqueline Nelson came up to me and said, “You want to go to the Rose Bowl?” And I says, “Yeah, I’d love to. What am I going to do?” He says, ‘You’re going to be the demo quarterback, and I want you to come into the uh film room tomorrow morning and start looking at that quarterback. I says, “Okay.” So, for me, not like a lot of other guys, I got to believe I was the 44th guy to get to go.

Okay. And uh I also managed to sever my triceps tendon uh in the last 11 plays uh tackling the quarterback. Okay, that’s crazy, but that’s what happened. Okay, Mike, the overall season of how do how do you think guys got along and treat, you know, treated each other from a how do did the coaches do a good job of instilling a team culture? That’s kind of my question. I I felt so and again I was a young fell just out of high school so to speak and freshman obviously uh didn’t play and so we were for the most part uh father as as sophomores and I remember Tom being the the demo uh quarterback and I think I may have been a receiver they put us wherever uh but uh we were winning that game and so I did get a chance to play in the game and I had not played very much during the season at all particularly as a running back.

I think it was Carl Ward, Jim Detwiler, Timberlake, Mel Anthony. They were great great great football players. But my eyes were were big. I remember staying at the hotel there at Pasadena. Uh I was just glad to be there and it was a question I thought in my own mind. Would I make that traveling squad? Would I be able to go to the uh you know go to the Rose Bowl? uh because uh there were only a number of players during the course of the season who got to stay over at the golf course prior to games. Uh and I was not one of those fellas. So, uh uh there was uh you know, you were always wondering uh we obviously dressed for the home games that uh I was able to be on the traveling squad, but you always felt a little bit uh left out, so to speak, if you weren’t staying at the golf course and walking over with the team.

But that’s amazing. That’s amazing that only 44 guys made the travel team. Uh Mike, let me ask you this next question. Some of this some of these questions aren’t even so much about your team, but it it’s it kind of just what it was to be a football player in the early 60s that you guys can just kind of talk about. Like let me ask you, Mike, uh your freshman year, where where did the guys stay? What dorm were you guys in? What do what do you remember about it as a freshman football? South in South Quad. Uh and uh uh we and actually unless you were and as a freshman I think all freshman had to stay there uh in South Quad and uh I think uh you had an opportunity if you belonged to a fraternity you could move out your our sophomore year.

That is correct. Uh but uh for the most part we were all there south quad and uh what I do remember though I can’t remember what floor we were on but uh we had a cohesive group that group that came in 63. Uh and I felt very very comfortable with my teammates and wasn’t necessarily comfortable all the time at Michigan. Uh, and I had some uh, differences of opinion with coaches, but those fellas that I played with, they remained friends of mine uh, for years. Carl Ward, of course, Don Bailey, we were a closely knit group and I appreciated that. There was a lot of respect uh, amongst uh, all of us. and that freshman group, we were like a team by itself and we pulled for each other’s success.

And again, I recall Jim Detwiler and Carl Ward, uh, they were starters. They got to play, but they Mel Anthony Mel Anthony, but he was a Mel Anthony was a, uh, I think a junior. I think he was a senior that year, don’t you think? Well, I you know, I got hit in the head a lot of times, so I just [laughter] my memory could be a little a little uh uh faulty, but uh nevertheless, I really felt close to those guys in that class that came in in in 63. So, you Yeah. Tom, did you guys stay two your first two years at South Quad? Uh, I became a beta theta pie guy. Uh, my I believe in the second year. Okay. And Clancy was in there.

Ricky Vulk was in there. Frank Nelly was in there. Dave Fischer was in there. But not a lot of jocks were in the Beta House. The Sigmakai fraternity owned all the jocks. Okay. Well, not all, but I mean they they had a lot of guys Uh, and of course Jim Conley, our captain, he he was a member of the Sigma Chi House. So freshman had to live one year then only Bo had us live too. We had to do two years at South Quad and you guys did one year and then I guess you could leave after your sophomore year or after your freshman year. I think that’s correct. Isn’t it Mike? Wasn’t that the way it worked? Quite frankly, no. We had to stay in the dorm unless we were going to a fraternity of one sort or another.

We could not go back and get get in. Yeah. Yeah. We could not go. Tom Tom, let me ask you this. Uh training table that’s been around a while. Did you guys always have uh training table during the season? You know, better food. The the training table was actually at South Quad. Okay. until they went to that place out on Stadium Boulevard for the weekends and you could bring your parents or significant others and we would go to that place to have our our lunches or dinners. Okay. And uh I never had any complaint about food at the at the basement of the old golf course. I mean there were a lot of things that went on but I mean uh they did a good job.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We added too. We had good training table during the season. And you know, I don’t know if you guys have been down there these last couple years. These kids eat three square meals. They got three meals a day down there at the football building anytime they want. Three great meals. They got chefs. It’s a different world, man. They got three I’ll tell you what. The guy that is providing both the basketball and the football players today is the guy that owns Knight’s Steakhouse out there on Dexter Road. And so he is continuing to provide all the food for those uh two teams. And by the way, let’s don’t talk about Dusty May because I can’t figure that out. [laughter] Uh hey Mike, let me start with you on this question.

Do you remember uh your first training camp coming in as a freshman and and and coming from Ypsilanti down the street and and say, “Wow, what’s up with the Who are you? What’s up with these guys?” You remember your first training camp? Your first double session? I got I got a good story there. I’ll make it quick. All right. Okay, Tom, you let Tom go. Tom, you start first then. Go ahead. All right. Yeah. Yeah. So we’re up there in I was in Reeves house in South Quad and my first roommate was Choo Choo from Sunduski, Ohio, African-American gentleman. Okay. And so we’re getting all tucked in and all this other stuff. And I said, “Charlie,” I says, “I got to go pee.” And I walked out into the hallway and here comes Tom Briggstock in a white bathrobe and white slippers.

Now, I’ve known this guy, and we’re playing golf tomorrow. Okay. I’ve known this guy for how many years? 62 or three. And he was from uh Battle Creek. And he and he he’s a bit of a today, just like he was back then. He was a know-it-all. Okay. But we’ve been very good friends. And so when I uh he told me he says I I called my mother and said told her to send two more belts for my bathroom. [laughter] End the story. What do you What do you remember, Mike? Your first training camp. Uh I was in in awe of these these great athletes and I actually said do do I really belong? Uh like I said, I was a running back. I could run the football, but uh and in doing all the running at Ypsilanti High, I never learned to block.

And I remember this tackle uh Pit Lash was his name. Max Pitsh. boy, he kicked the out of he was a defensive tackle and one of the or an end and on one of the plays, you know, the responsibility of the back was to block this guy and I didn’t know the first thing about blocking and and I could look at Carl Ward who would knock the out of you, you know, and I said, “Oh my god, am I in am I ever gonna What am I going to What am I doing here? Uh uh I I obviously I I want to play. I really want to play, but I did hardly got on the field uh uh quite frankly. And I think I think the coaches saw that too.

And I think maybe they may have thought, well, did we make a mistake? Did we make a mistake? You’re damn right they made a mistake. [laughter] Yeah, I’m going to get another picture up here. Well, one other thing I got to go ahead. Uh, we had two other AfricanAmerican athletes to me that were special. Bill Yerby and Rowser. John Rowser. John Rowser. Yes. And we’ve lost both of them. But Yerby could knock your freaking head off, right, Mike? Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And there’s our coaches. Yeah. We’re going to look at that film and and Mike, you you you talk about running backs that block. I have a lot of it uh marked down already. You those dudes with block guys. Okay. Let’s start with Bump, man.

Bump is here on uh on our right. Yep. Dennis Fitzgerald. Okay, hang on. Let’s Bob Nelson. Hang on. Let’s just one at a time. One at a time, guys. with uh uh Tom when when I say the name Bump Elliottt, what are some things that go through your mind? Bump Elliott as a leader as a as a leader of that football program. 28 minutesFather figure. Father figure. If you had a problem, Bump knew how to handle it. Okay. He was like a father to us. Okay. Mike, what are you thinking when you think about Coach Elliott? Well, I have a totally uh different feeling about uh Bump Elliottt. As a matter of fact, I have a uh sorry to say this, I was the total opposite quite frankly.

The only coach that I felt close to uh was Don Dufek. And you know what? You know what the I just told uh I I I just told Jimmy yesterday that that person Dufek listened to any player and we all loved him. We love the man. Yep. Yep. And uh so just so our listeners know uh Don Dufek is uh is second from our left now. Okay. Right over there. You got you got Bump holding the football on the right. Let’s just go right to left then and then we’ll point him off. Okay. Bump is holding the football on the right. Next to him is who? Fitzgerald. What did he coach? Well, freshman. He coached a freshman. And he coached a freshman and he was the last one to wear a leather helmet.

So he played at Michigan. Yes. Oh, yes. He played he played for Benny. I can’t tell you that cuz I don’t remember much before really 1962. Okay. Did you guys have him as a freshman coach then? Yeah. Yes. Did was he respect Did you tell was he a respected guy? Yes. Okay. So, he taught at least I think so, Mike. Don’t you? Uh yeah, as as Yeah, he was. I have to admit he was he would he would come and actually visit us in the dorm and so forth to see if how we were doing, how we were feeling. And so he was the only one in my opinion who was personable and along with of course uh Duke. Okay. So that was his deal.

He was getting guys ready and teaching the fundamentals as a freshman. Now who’s the the way? And they named the they named the uh uh Pioneer Field after Oh, is that what that is? You know, I I coasted Ypsilanti and I never knew that that was named after him. So, he’s the third guy in and he’s the primarily uh defensive coach, Mike. Is that right? Yeah, that’s right. And then uh Jocko Nelson, I think he coached the receivers. He did. He was my wide receiver coach after Jocko Nelson. Let me just get back to hallway real quick. Okay. Uh give me his strengths then. Let’s give me give me his strengths as a coach, guys. Well, uh, again, uh, I have feelings about about him that were negative, so I’d rather Me, too.

That’s fine. Me, too. Make that, too. Yeah. But he he just didn’t know how to talk to players. Yeah. Yeah. He He didn’t. And he was It was kind of a sarcasm that came out of his mouth. Uh, that didn’t go over well. And And of course, absolutely. And we were impressionable at that age just coming out of high school. So we were sensitive and we actually felt uh did he like me or did he not like me? I mean we really considered oh god he doesn’t like me and and that affected us I think as young kids coming out of high school. So it didn’t make a difference. And I tell you what, it was pretty much if you took a vote of the players, I’d say 50% did not like Bob Holloway.

All right, let’s talk about the uh the guy in the middle now is your receivers’s coach. What’s his name? Uh Tom Jocko Nelson. Jocko Nelson. 32 minutesJocko Nelson. What all did he coach? Wide receivers. That’s it. Just nothing on defense? No, I don’t think so. No. No kidding. Okay. And uh did he Next guy. The next guy to him to the right is Tony Mason. Okay. That’s third guy. Ohio. Yeah. Third guy in from our left. Tony. Tony. Tony Mason. Out of Ohio on the east side of Ohio. And I’m telling you what, that guy knew football. He knew football. He was an absolute motivator. Even we on defense uh respected Tony Mason. I he I never saw a more positive guy even when we were getting our asses kicked.

Yes. He he and and it rubbed off. I played uh well again I go back to that freshman year I was trying to be a running back but uh he just had just had that positive exuberance that carried over. Yeah. carried over and and well respected I think among all of the players. There you go. What position did he coach? Uh offensive line because your offensive line when I when I watch your offensive line I your technique you guys are really coached up well and uh it’s obvious. So I have a we all have a high high uh opinions of Don Dufek second from the left here. I I know his sons. Um I’ve known uh the old man Dufek. I call him the old man.

you know, he coached you guys, but I worked with him and uh I also have great respect for him. So, talk to talk to me about him then real quick, Mike. Well, uh he’s a guy that you could go to under any circumstances. Amen. And he is one who was always positive. He didn’t never uh said negative things to the point where it made you feel bad. It made he made me want to do the very best I can. Not only uh obviously in a game, but uh just in practice. Uh he reminded me uh of a coach that all you wanted to get from him was something positive. And I got positive vibes from him as a freshman uh as a sophomore uh and even uh after he was he was not coaching.

uh and uh I spent some time with him uh when I decided to come back and visit Michigan at uh one of the outings and uh we had a very very long conversation. I will relay that story to you uh uh later on in the in the show here. Tom, did Dufet coach you at all? Yes. Yes, he did. He coached anybody that you wanted to ask advice for, you would go to Don Dufek. He’s got he had two sons that uh obviously followed him. Donnie Dufek played in the pros for 10 years. And Billy Dufek was the one that helped Rick Leech. Uh you know, Billy’s funny. Billy was my landlord. Me and my buddies, he owned a house on Packard Street. So yeah, Don Dufek was a legend.

Okay, how about now? Far left. First guy on the far left. Uh Tom, you start with him. Who is that? What did he coach? Well, you know, because I don’t particularly care for him, I’m gonna let Mike tell you who he is. Maybe he has something good to say. I didn’t think much of him. Uh he reminded me of a follower, not a leader. And I felt like he was low on the totem pole in terms of respect even by the other coaches. Uh I don’t know Hank Fondi Hank Fondi was not the most popular guy but I would put Holloway in front of him as not you know so Holloway and then Fondi and or give me the other coaches and we would have been national champs if they ever had a goddamn thing like that you know.

Yeah. Yeah. It was it was different. [laughter] Okay. So then let me just ask you why did you win the the Big Ten Championship then Tom? If if someone just said I will tell you the first thing. No, just give me a real quick and in in 30 seconds. Why did you win the Big Ten Championship? Great senior leadership. Period. Yep. Yep. How about you? Why did Why did you guys win the Big Ten Championship? Oh, it was Well, we won because we scored more points. 34 there. There’s a It all It all gets back to, you know, there’s a reason for some of that stuff, though. You stop people, you score, you you know, discipline and, you know, why would you say, Mike, why did you win a Big Ten championship?

Well, the game at Ohio State, what was the score? 10 to nothing. 10 to nothing. Uh, obviously, if you’re not going to lose if if a team doesn’t score points. We scored 10 points, and I remember, uh, we were very, very well coached. We had Tom Mack on that team. Uh Ben Fairley. Yeah. Uh yep, you’re right. Uh Detwiler, Sygar. Yeah, I I think it was Detwiler who caught that uh that pass and that was something that I think Tony Mason called that play. Yep. Uh uh and I remember that because I was standing out down there in the cold. You were up there in the box, but I was Yeah, I was freezing up there. Don’t think I would. Yeah. All right. So, I got your Okay, you guys finished nine and one.

You finished number four in the country. Uh, your head coach is Elliot, your captains, um, all conference M. Okay. How about any story about the trainer Jim Hunt? Oh, Jimmy. Oh, that Jim Hunt was he was delightful. Uh when I when I severed my triceps tendon though, I I went in there and the red head uh took care of me. I had three different positions for my arm to get it back to where it used to be. And and he was wonderful. And then you had uh Max Schilling. Yeah. Uh we had uh uh oh god, the old the old man there. Uh yeah, I’m trying to remember. Uh Jimmy’s uh tasted. Yeah. Who who who was the doctor that showed Connie that show who the hell was that?

What was his name? Oh, I’ll get it. I’ll get it. Okay. So, you guys have a good impression of the way you were treated as from a trainer standpoint. We had good trainers. We really did. Jim Hunt was the head dude. 39 minutesOkay. and and uh a wonderful human being, a very religious man, just a great guy to to lead a group of uh guys in there that are working for him. That’s my opinion. Yeah. And and you could tell he cared. That makes Yes. And it wasn’t it wasn’t uh let’s get him well and get him back out on the field. Uh even though he might not be ready, he would keep you out. He would keep you out. that would piss some of the coaches off.

But uh he was thinking more of us really because you could get hurt playing this game of football and absolutely and uh it it you could feel those things for years and years to come. So he didn’t want you out there if you weren’t really ready as much. Now Jimmy, if we wanted clean underwear, the shirt and the and the tie string shorts, we had to go find a a shirt and things so that we could turn it in and then we were good forever. Okay. But yeah, uh you remember that, Mike? I mean, there were so and it said on there, it said uh what did it say on that square up there? Let’s see. I forget, [laughter] but Bump Elliott and his wife sent me when my first daughter was born one of those little shirts.

Okay, it was for a baby. Really? Oh, let me ask you this manager. Is that the equipment manager? Pardon me. This is Bob Evans. Who is Bob Evans? Bob Evans was a manager. Uh and uh he was he was basically I’d say the head manager. All right, let’s look at the schedule, guys. We’re going to look at the Oregon State game here in a minute. Uh I’m going to start with you, Mike. When you look at the schedule, if you want to just kind of give some general thoughts that you remember about the schedule, go ahead. Well, the thing that I remember most really is the loss to Purdue. I think we uh in the three years that uh we played Purdue when we were able to play, we lost to them by I think a total of maybe five to seven points overall.

Uh all in which Bob Greasie was a contributor. I remember that. And Bob Greasie w was my nemesis. uh throughout my pro career as well. Yeah. Give me give me five seconds and let me show you something. Hold on. Um Okay. Do you hold on hold on hold on five seconds. Um yeah, because I looked at that film, you know, uh Mike, I looked at the uh Purdue game of that year and that was the only Thanks a lot. Thanks a lot. Well, I just wanted to get an idea. Well, like I got to look at the only game you lost and I I realized autographed. Autographed. Okay. Yeah. And this was at our fraternal order of Eagles and I saw that thing up there and I put in so many tickets.

I won this and I don’t know if you know it, but Brian Griese along with uh uh the basketball player, they had the commencement address this year. Oh yeah. Brian Griese spoke. I know Jalen Rose and uh Rose and Greasy Brian Griese. That’s great. Yeah. Anyway, but yeah, I looked at that game film and it one thing that stuck out to me was that was like one of the only teams that could really throw the ball with consistency. Well, but here with this particular situation, Timberlake pitched a ball to Dave Fiser. To this day, that athlete from Dayton, Ohio, still denies he dropped the ball. [laughter] Yeah. 21 to 20. Yeah. 43 minutesAll right. I tell you what I’m going to do, man. I I have a lot of good questions.

And what we’re going to do is we’re going to start on this film and we’ll watch film and as we’re we’ll have a conversation as we’re looking at things. And can you guys see the film? I Let’s see. Well, yeah, I can. Yeah, that’s pretty good there. There’s Connley. Okay. Well, tell let’s start with him then. Uh talk talk to me about your captain. Why is he a captain? And what what was what were his strengths? Uh I I’ll start Mike if I can. Uh Jimmy Jimmy cared for his teammates. Yeah, he he really cared for his teammates. You look at the guy and his stature going up against Buttkus and stuff like that. Connley was a unbelievably good athlete. Okay. Yeah. I miss him.

I miss him to death. Any thoughts, Mike, about him? 44 minutesWell, I remember Connley uh as one having no teeth. [laughter] Yeah, you’re right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, but man, he was tough. He was and and you knew he wasn’t that big. He was getting his ass kicked and he would come back for more. Yeah. And I couldn’t think of a person who could be a better captain. Absolutely. Absolutely. Just just a tremendous tremendous guy. I I agree. Totally agree. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right, we’re going to Listen, I I got a couple guys marked on some of the plays and I’ll try to mention at least every guy that plays in here. Uh but I’m just going to start with these two guys. Here’s Mack over here.

Uh great great player, great NFL player. And then Markhamm. Uh well, now can I can I talk about Mack for a second? Go ahead then. Uh Tommy, talk about Tom Mack. Okay. So Tom Mack was a was a tackle at Michigan. All right. And you’ll see the play where Mel Anthony was running into the end zone and Mack was about five yards behind him. Mack was recruited by the Los Angeles Rams at left guard, which is the tougher guard in pro football than the right guard. He played 13 years and never missed a game. He was in 11, what do they call it? The Pro Bowls. Thank you. And he he is in our Hall of Fame at Canton. Mike, you talked about uh you know when I look at your film and I look at your running backs.

Look at look at Mel here just crushing this guy. Oh yeah. Look at him block here. Oh yeah. Mel that’s Mel Anthony there. Yeah. Boom. Yeah. Mel. So you know you weren’t going to play for Michigan if you couldn’t block. Tell talk to me about him then real quick. Uh Mike Mel Anthony. Oh, Mel. Mel uh he was a starter his uh well uh junior and senior years. Uh he was just tough. He was from Cincinnati. Yep. Uh and he was just a hard tough noose uh guy. A little arrogant, but you had to be in that position. Uh, I see here you have Stan Kemp who’s obviously no longer with us, but he he was a very very dear good friend of mine and a great punter by golly from he was my roommate at the Rose Bowl.

Did he play a position also or did they recruit guys like just to be a skill like a punter kicker back then? Stan was strictly a punter. Yeah, he kid. Okay. Uh, and he was a good one. He was an absolute he put the ball uh you know get it inside the you know inside the the numbers down there where it needed to be. 47 minutesHey L Mike, do you remember who coached the special teams? Was it just kind of an assortment of guys that the coaches that uh broke up the special teams? How did you guys how did you guys coach that up? Well, there wasn’t I don’t recall a special teams coach. Okay. Well, you know what, Mike? There were guys, Bill McDougall, okay, I can remember, was a coach, okay?

There were some guys that were there and they were volunteering. I don’t think they were paid or anything, but there were some guys that that coached and and matter of fact, I would have put Fitzgerald in that same Yeah. category. Yeah. Okay. Now, here you go. You got you got some guys that are going both ways. Tom Mack, I don’t think I saw him playing any defense in this game, but Connley’s playing some tight end, a little bit of I think he played a little bit of tight end. Yes. And he’s and Yerby’s playing both ways. Uh talk to me about Yerby. Uh Tom, here’s Yerby right here. 75. And here’s I’ll tell you why. Bill Yerby had the strongest forearm I have ever been hit with in my life.

Period. You watch him. I mean, he he it was unbelievable. He was a great basketball player, too. Uh Oh, yeah. Light on his feet. Both he and John Rowser were from uh Eastern High School in in Detroit. Uh and uh uh they came in the actually the the same year and he was just strong, just strong. And uh uh and and really a nice guy. I I I remember him very very well. And uh uh we all kind of hung out together when we weren’t playing uh football. And he’s the one person that uh I think uh Bob Holloway showed or some respect. Uh I think he gave Yerby the respect that he deserved. Okay. Quite frankly, and it probably the nobody liked Holloway. Uh [laughter] you’re right.

But uh and Bill was uh Holloway’s favorite. I I I am sure of that. I am very sure of it. And he he because of Bill Holloway, I am sure got the opportunities to coach in the NFL as well. Wow. You know, I’m I’m I’m watching uh Keating here, 68. He he’s another guy that’s playing both sides of the ball. He’s he’s a good defensive player, good offensive player. He’s in he’s in the Hall of Fame as well. Uh is he he’s in the NFL Hall of Fame? Yes, he is. Yes, he is. Tom Keating. Tom. And he had a brother, Bill. I got it wrong then. I got it wrong here. That 68 is Tom Keating. That’s Tom. Yeah. And that that’s Bill. I mean, instead of Yeah.

Okay. I got Tom here. 68. Is that correct? Well, I I think Tom had my freshman year was Tom’s senior year. Okay. Yeah. So, there were two Were there two brothers on the team? Uh well I he had a brother that was Bill I think was a 60 he came same time in ‘ 62 I think as now you got me wondering if I’m looking I don’t want to have his name butchered but anyway talk about him real quick. I’m going to talk about Katy. Well both of those guys of course uh grew up in Chicago and Jerry Mater and and uh God who are some of the other guys there oh Jeff. There’s another Chicago guy. Uh there they had a lot of Chicago players on our team and they were good players.

Okay. My program says Bill Keating. Oh yeah, it was Bill. I think I remember Tom because uh we were freshman and Tom and Joe O’Donnell were seniors. Yes. When we were fresh. Okay. So my you know my program says Bill. Anyway, I see him playing making plays on defense. He’s blocking guys and I’m really impress your two out outside linebacker uh Laski. Yeah. And Connie, these guys are both real good football players. Last year, they are. They are. Yeah. I see them making a lot of I played that position right here. This is the position I played and uh you know I you got to be an athlete to play out there, Mike. Oh. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. But anyway, Keating makes a play here.

I think he causes a fumble and you guys are b got the ball on on offense. Um, let me ask you who called plays for you guys. You remember who called plays? Well, you’re asking a defensive Tony Mason. Well, I I don’t know quite frankly. Uh, I’m thinking it’s Tony Mason was calling plays. I’m sure it was Tony Mason because he came in from Ohio and um Yeah, this is your best football play right here. Uh guys, this the first play you guys put in. I mean, you run the heck out of this play. You know, another guy that plays he looks like he’s playing he’s playing offense. I see him playing Dline. I think he even played linebacker is Simkus. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Was he he he was all over the place.

Oh, he he he was different. Let me put it that way. He he uh just a a great great guy, I thought. And he was one of those guys who you thought may have been always high. [laughter] Okay. Well, let me tell you, this is how football’s changed. You know, watch your quarterback here. He’s going to toss the football. You think these guys are making a million dollars? They’re paying now. Going to do what? Watch your quarterback here. He pitches the ball. He’s going to block somebody. [laughter] You got it. Well, he didn’t find anybody to block. But he’s looking though. Timber. Timberlake was I think 6’4 and because of that stature, he could get a first down damn near every time he tried. I’m I’m uh I’m seeing your right guard here, Mel.

Is it Milky? Milky. Yes. Bob Mielke. M. And now here you got your Yerby be playing offense now. He’s a great player on defense. So he he rotating in with Tom Mack is what I’m seeing. Yeah. Yeah. And they’re running This is your This is your favorite play right here. You guys You guys run this thing all day long. But um if anyway, he t You know what? Somebody asked me, “Was that field wet?” Was that you? Yeah, because I well later in the game I just see the jerseys. They look really dirt, you know, like they got mud. Yeah, that was that was an interesting comment you made and uh Yeah. Okay. Talk to me about Cecchini, your center here. Now, he Well, what I said what I told you uh yesterday was we had uh a center, Brian Patchin from Florida.

Okay. Well, that’s where he ended up. But, uh, Chaini, it seemed to me, would uh, do the long snaps and stuff. I I might be wrong. Anyway, they both play defense. He’s he’s he’s playing a ton of linebacker and he’s also played, I think, every down at center. But you guys are just wedge blocking here. Everybody’s wedging down and you’re knocking him out of here for get getting the first down. Yeah. Yeah. Mel was a tough runner, man. He’ll block. He he would uh Okay, now here’s uh 48. Uh that’s I’m just trying to point out all the guys that are playing. You guys can tell me about Detwiler. Well, he’s a he he he became a dentist in Toledo. Yeah, he’s a tough running back here.

Yes. Well, he was big. I mean, he was the biggest running back I’d ever seen. Yeah, he was. You’re right. You’re right, Mike. Carl, talk to me about Carl. Number 19, Carl Ward. Yeah, that’s all I can say. He was tough. Didn’t he get Didn’t Didn’t he have to uh Mike, he he had to stay out of uh the first half, was it? Because he went down to Tijana. Remember that? Oh, now see. Oh, yeah. Yeah, Carl Ward missed half of the first half or some damn thing because B uh he they told everybody not to go down there and he went down there. Oh [laughter] yeah. Oh yeah. Um Okay. After we get talk to me about Timberlake, uh Tom Timberlake uh uh Franklin, Ohio.

Okay. Uh after his plain days at Michigan, he became a Presbyterian minister and then he kicked uh for the Washington Redskins if I No, New York Giants, I’m sorry, New York Giants. He was a kicker for them. And then I attended the wedding of he and his wife Bobby Bob and Bobby at the Presbyterian Church in uh in Arbert. Any thoughts about him, Mike? Uh, he was a good leader. Uh, he he and you know, he wasn’t he was not going to lose a game for us. Uh, and he was he was a smart player. Uh, I have nothing but good things to to say about about Bob. He would have uh he would have been a kind of guy that treated uh he would have known the freshman on the team.

Not necessarily. So, our our our seniors, they were they were a little uh I know what you mean, man. Yeah, the juniors uh like I said, uh Yerby and so these guys, they were okay, but the seniors were a little uh uh [laughter] I understand, man. Yeah, that’s saying they might not give a lot of love to freshman is what you’re saying. Yeah. Yeah, I get it. Okay. Yeah. I I tell you what what I do like about the way your football team like when I look at your team, I’m I’m looking at you guys really run to the darn football. Who who do you attribute that? You guys run to the ball, man. Look at Simkus here. I mean, look at you guys are, you know, you want to win this game.

You got that’s coached up, man. Look at you’re Look at 70 here. That’s great effort. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I guess you have to attribute some of this to to Holloway even though you didn’t care for him as a a [laughter] man. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, let let me ask you guys uh as we’re looking through some of this stuff. The uh Okay, this the 63 season ends. And it’s not the best season. No. What what was the mindset coming into this this uh 64 season like in terms of uh you know was there a lot of pissed-off guys? Was there a lot of pissed-off coaches? What was the Well, here here’s the deal. Okay, 63 Starbucks came into the big house, kicked our ass. 64 they came back because they make more money at the big house than they do Annapolis and we kicked his ass.

Yeah. Yeah. This is big time. Matter of fact, Bob Donnelly, who was a Big Ten discus champion, his brother was the fullback for uh Star Buck. And he he passed away unfortunately way too young. Yeah. Um Okay. So there, you know, there’s a uh obviously you weren’t Was there pressure on Were were people talking about getting rid of Bump? Was there No. No, no, never, never. But like Mike said, you know, he is different sort of a guy. I I just said father figure because uh probably because he gave my daughter a t-shirt. Probably why I said that. I don’t know. How about John Henderson? Uh Mike, John was an He’s catching a ball down here. Yeah, he was an excellent receiver. He was drafted by the Lions and uh ended up in Minneapolis as a uh with the Vikings as a receiver.

Tall looking guy. Uh dependable again. And we generally only had one wide receiver in in this system that they are running. Yeah, you’re right. Yeah. Yeah. And two uh tight ends, so to speak. Uh but no, I have nothing but good things to say about John. and I played against him a number of years in the pros as well. Uh the thing I admire about him, Mike, was any reunion we had, etc., he was always there with his daughters or But I mean, he’s just a he’s just a fine human being. Yeah. You you know, you guys don’t run many formations. You don’t hardly do anything different on defense. You run one defense and you run some straight tea here or you bring the wing up.

That’s kind of what I’m seeing from your offense. But I like Bell Anthony blocking here, Mike. Watch him here. Or he’s running. Watch this. Yeah. You know, he’s getting another guy. He got another three yards. You guys are uh So, okay. So, the season ends. 63. The season ends. I just want to get a calendar, an idea of the calendar for you guys. So there’s no winter conditioning then at all, right? You guys are kind of on your own once the season ends. You you have no mandatory weightlifting, running workouts until spring ball. Is that correct? Yeah. No, we didn’t even have any bars to pull up or that was all that isometric over over by the the wall outside of the Yeah. the Yeah.

But that was that was not mandatory. It would have been optional. It would have been you guys would have been self motivated to do that. You’re right. Yeah, you are right. Yeah, cuz in when I played, you know, I’m 20 years after you guys, we literally had one week off. Here’s I mean I mean there’s Henderson making another catch. Nice throw by Timberlake. I watching this film. I think Timberlake could play today. There’s a lot of guys on your team that could play today. Absolutely. Timberlake 6’4. He’s athletic. He can throw. You got receivers that can run. I mean, you got running backs that could play. Absolutely. But um yeah, we in my era 81 to 85, you you we literally had one week off and then winter conditioning started and we were down there three four days a week.

Wow. Yeah. It you we had one week off. That was it the week after the bowl game. And uh Okay. So that’s And then uh spring football. Talk to me about uh what do you remember about spring football, Mike? Well, uh coming in. This was when they made the the change. Uh this obviously this game was when I was a sophomore, but uh that’s when they made the change and uh Duke relinquished his job to uh to Don James. Okay. And in doing so, that was the most important change in my entire football life. Don James was uh Dufet personified. And uh I remember uh he’s the one who switched me from uh my feudal attempt to be a running back to uh to a defensive back.

Uh I don’t know what he saw, but I remember when he came in, I think it was during the summer before the the uh things started for that fall. And I think I made an interception of one sort or another laid out or something. And from that point on, he was he was in my corner. And uh he taught me an awful lot. He gave me a lot of encouragement. I was going to a new position that I’d never played before. I learned how to tackle. He taught me those types of things. Uh concentration, little things. And he’s the one who totally changed my entire football career. I got to point out here be here. I just love this effort. You know, I see I see 75.

There’s no reason. I think he was the MVP. He was all Big Ten or something. But look at the effort here. And Suchini, you know, he’s your center and he’s playing linebacker. He’s making some plays. But I like this effort. Watch him. 75 right here. I didn’t want to cut you off, Mike, but I I’m seeing some plays I pointed out with great effort. And uh uh Okay. So, you you guys had uh Tom, you or Mike, you had you had 20 practices. And do you were they real tough physical practices or how do you what do you remember about that? Well, I didn’t. It was all a learning situation for me going from a running back to and uh going into my junior year.

Uh and I don’t know what he did or what he said, but I ended up getting a starting position uh at the at the right corner. And uh even when I I didn’t get beat too often, but I remember a game against Northwestern where uh I went against the grain and fortunately it was Northwestern and this guy caught maybe a 60 or 70 yard pass on me and I said, “Oh I’m I’m going to be sitting the bench.” But [laughter] you know, but uh Don James, I’m sure, came to my age and said absolutely no. He was a strong he was a strong personality. That’s good. And he prove he proved himself to be leaving uh Michigan. I think he went to Ken State and then out to the University of Washington.

Yeah. and where he beat Jim Beckler’s teams in in one or two of the of the Rose Bowls. Yeah, I played two years in my last two years. We lost twice to him out there in last second and we lost to him in Ann Arbor. How about Rick Siger? Uh is that is that am I pronouncing it right? Uh Tom Seager. Seager. Seager. Yeah, I tried to tell him that yesterday. Seager. Wow. S Y G A R. So he’s he’s your punt returner. What else does he do? Rob, he was uh he used to steal clothes out of uh one of the stores down there on North U. Okay. [laughter] I hate to say it, but we no longer know. He’s to see I mean Seager was uh he was tough.

He was he was tough. He really was. I mean, yeah. I remember the Ohio State game, you know, that we won and he did a great job in that game. Well, he played actually for for Tony Mason in Niles, I think. Yeah. Niles McKinley. Correct. Yeah. Uh and a lot of a number of players came from Niles. Absolutely. In Ohio. Uh he didn’t do anything after, you know, his college career, but he was a good teammate. He’s a good teammate. Yeah. But he was he was I don’t know. There is a little bit of arrogance about him as well. I beg. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, no. Yeah. It’s It’s Yeah. Total arrogance. I agree. So, here’s your Let’s Let’s watch 75 again. Yuri here. He’s He’s all over the place.

He plays the run. He rushes the quarterback. Yeah. You’re getting a sack here. Um, did you guys film practice where at the at the Rose Bowl? When you guys were playing, did they film your practice? And did you guys look at film practices or No. No, no, we didn’t look at practices, did we, Mike? No, I don’t remember. I don’t I don’t recall that at all. Yeah, we we you know, in my era, we did. They would film practice, certain uh scrimmage, you know, scrimmages, drills. They used to film it and show We didn’t do that, but we looked at game films every time. That’s for sure. Yeah. All right. So, let me ask you, when you So, you play on Saturday. I want to get an idea what the the weekly routine is.

You guys play on Saturday, I think. I know. You play Air Force on Saturday. Okay. Sunday, what what’s your what is your responsibility on Sunday? Well, what they did was they would go get the films uh for us to look at and and we’d start in in in the film room. Okay. On Sunday. On Sunday. Okay. And so it’s mandatory. The whole team is there. Yeah. Well, yeah. I think it was offense and defense, wasn’t it, Mike? You had offensive guys and you had defensive guys. Yeah. Yeah. No. And uh very little was done with special teams. Who was offense and defense? Look at 75 again making a play here. This guy late reaching out with his. Okay. So you you come in, you’re looking at film.

There’s no you’re not dressed or anything on Sunday. You’re just looking at film. Yeah. Going over scouting report type stuff. Yeah. And then uh are you uh Monday? Hey, you guys putting pads on on Monday? Uh, do you remember? I don’t recall. I be honest with you. I don’t either, to be honest with you. I It’s okay. I mean, I’m just Yeah, I don’t remember. You know, you’re asking us to remember things 60 some odd years ago. 63 years ago. I know. I get it. Okay. Look at Look at this, Mike. A tight end delay here. He’s faking like he’s blocking and he goes out. You see that, Mike? Yeah. Wait a minute. I got a question. Go ahead. I thought Oregon State scored first.

They did. Did they? Yeah. Yeah, they did. Yeah, this is right here. Yeah. So, that we’re showing that. We’re showing We just showed that. Well, I’m showing the whole game. We’re not Yeah, this is it. This is their first score. You guys are kind of struggling. You guys have moved the ball, but not not great. You know, something we Okay, so it’s seven nothing, you guys are down. Uh, you know, kind haven’t really moved the ball much is, let me ask you, um, Tom, were you guys the kind of team where it’s like you a your attitude was strong, you’re down, who cares, we’re coming back, we’re, you know, that kind of mentality. I I think so. We were tough. I mean, uh, and to win obviously a number of games.

We only lost the the one game. We were tough. Uh yeah, that’s something that I admired quite frankly. Uh yeah, and I felt like again we were playing a West Coast team and these these teams were not were they I didn’t think that they were tough and I think that that is what the attitude was. Yeah. that at some point we would we would take control of the game and it would be because of our running game because of our offensive line. Yeah. Yeah. I just I just felt that way and you saw we kept and we wore them down. We actually wore them down. Yeah. Yeah. you got I’m I’m going to guess watching your film, you know, I I coached 25 years in high school and you know, your first play in the first formation on the first day of practice, you know, that’s kind of tells your team, you tell your team that’s kind of what you are, you know, and I this play I think is your your best football play.

And I you guys block the heck. I’m really impressed how these guys come off the ball low. They get they have great technique. They move guys. this these guys are blocking and then you you know you’re pulling the backside here and you guys execute the heck out of this play. You probably run it 20 times in this game. Yeah, they can’t and they didn’t weren’t able to start stop it. Yeah, you run it and you just you run that play in your sleep, man. There’s Kyle Ward there and then you run the trap off of it. You know you you know you’re pounding them pounding them and now you’re going to you’re going to run a trap in here. So here’s Kyle getting you’re running a trap.

You’re trapping this uh somebody out here trapping this guy. Yeah. Anyway, you’re you’re lying. I get you’re lying as well, coach. That’s Tony Mason coaching them. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I I looking at it. I just think uh you know. All right. So, um, did you guys, uh, game week, uh, your home game, where did you guys stay at? Oh, well, the the team Well, part of the team that were going to be starters, okay, stayed up into the clubhouse, golf course clubhouse. some of the guys would sneak out and go over to uh go over to the field over there and and watch a high school game being played and like that. But no, uh we had to report to the to the locker room in the uniform.

Okay. So, you guys were at the golf course in the in the lounge over there at the golf course. At the golf course, they had a second floor with bunk beds. Yeah. Okay. And That’s where the guys stayed. Okay. Okay. Was it was just a travel team, just the 44 guys? No. Uh if it’s a home game, no. For there’s more than 44 guys. Okay. Yeah, there’s more than 44 guys there. And and sometimes we would get in and sometimes we, you know, we didn’t depending upon the score and all that other stuff. Yeah. How about Ben Farh Farbe 80 here make making a catch. Well, I tell you what, he was big in that Ohio State game, 10 to nothing. He he he he did some good stuff there.

Okay. So, the the travel team then, Mike, um it was, you know, same thing when I played, you know, it was a it was a big thing. You wanted to make the travel team, but everybody didn’t make the travel team on home games then. Correct. Well, they I think just about everybody dressed. Yeah. Everybody dressed. But in terms of the guys they put up in the in the uh at the golf course, that was only a certain guys. Yeah. Yes. That was uh they were the elites. And Okay. And then you guys would have had dinner there in a movie at night type thing. I can’t recall. Uh I don’t I’m trying to think if uh It’s okay, man. Yeah. I I I tell you one thing I know you can recall, Mike, is this guy 37 right right here blocking people.

You see me? I’m looking at blocks. Yeah. Watch him here. Boom. Yeah. Well, you know, uh that that was just part of the thing where I accepted my goal, so to speak. And uh I think the best compliment I ever got was from John Rowser and the way I ran my patterns in practice to you know try to do everything and and uh I was sitting in the M MGM casino and and all of a sudden here comes this dude pounding me on the back and it was Rowser. I’ll never forget that. But anyway, uh I just think that we were there wasn’t any divisive things going on with our team. I mean, it was I I you know, I mean, God, it was a fun time to be there, you know.

Here’s a good play. Who’s this here? Is this uh I think that’s Seni right here. Yeah. Yeah, that’s Seni. and he’s coming free there. Uh, let me ask you guys this. What What kind of a pregame speech was a Bump Elliottt speech like? Anybody want to answer that question? Was it I mean, I could answer that for Shackler. What What was a Bump Elliott pregame speech like? I don’t recall one speech in the locker room myself uh from him. I don’t either. I really don’t either. Yeah. So he would have been it wouldn’t have been it would have been just a few words and like let’s just go play. Something like that. Yeah. 17 minutesYeah. Yeah. We we were a bunch of self these guys were self motivated.

Really? Yeah. Self motivated. Yeah. That that reminded me Mike I used to use a there was a story Lou Holtz I heard Lou Holtz interviewed and they said coach you just what do you say to your team at halftime? They came out and they they played and you must had had a great halftime speech. He says he says, “Let me tell you something. It’s real simple. I recruit self-motivated players that don’t depend on me to get motivated to play.” Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I used to tell my players that all the time. But uh yeah, you guys are a lot of zone coverage. And u one thing one thing that I’ve been watching is the guy that I came there to emulate a quarterback.

He ain’t he wasn’t very good, was he? Look at him. Holy gosh. Wait, you you Oh, this dude here. Yeah. [laughter] Paul, that’s why Michigan’s defense played good. They got a better look from you all week than this guy here, man. Paul Brothers. Yeah, you you you did a better job than this guy. But no, you know, I look you what you guys do on defense, you’re in the same front the whole time. You got four down linemen and you just, you know, these guys drop, these guys drop. You’re basically a 44 defense is what I’m seeing. Sound like a coach to me. You do. Well, you don’t you know, you don’t do a lot. A little bit of stunting there. They were bringing linebackers there.

I’m just trying to figure out what you guys were doing on defense. Well, that they’re dropping the ball everywhere. Okay, I got a question. Uh, Mike, you played in the NFL and you know, do you guys have many fights in practice at Michigan? No. No, I I I don’t recall uh any fights actually and not even in in the pros. But you you have to understand too, I I played for a a coach who who wanted older players. We were too smart to to get in a fight with each other. [laughter] So here’s Mel Anthony and Timberlake. You’re running option here. You I don’t think you guys have run this play yet in the game. No, this is the first time. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, I looking at it from a defensive standpoint, you’re pounding them here, you’re pounding them here, you run your best play here all day long, and you run a little trap in here.

And now here you’re running an option here uh to this open end side. Okay. And uh you guys block it good. And your running back, it’s blocked. You got downfield blocking. Your running back is a great player. your quarterback. Nice pitch. Nice pitch. You got a nice block there. Uh who is that right there? You got a nice block there. You got 80 blocking guys. You got You got a lot of people blocking. And then um that’s a great cut back. And there’s Tom. There’s Tom Mack right there. Yeah, he’s right. Almost beat him in there. He’s right here. 96 this guy. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, that’s uh it’s all over now. After that play, it’s done for the uh the what the hell are they?

The the the um Oh, there’s that sulfur that they put up. Yeah. What the hell happened there? Tell me about that. Who? Someone from the Somebody had a smoke bomb and they just did it out there. Yeah. The Beavers. They’re the Beavers. That’s what they are. The Oregon State Beavers. Yeah. Right. Okay. So, anyway, your kicker here now, again, we know he’s a good quarterback, but he is uh he’s your kicker. So yes, yes, he you know that’s you know when I played Bo didn’t want to give a scholarship to a punter or kicker for many years and he finally did it late later on in his career and he he did he just didn’t want to give one to a guy. It was always okay I could find one of these guys that can punt or kick but uh anyway Timberlake was a hell of a kicker.

Ended up kicking in the NFL then. Right guys? Yeah that’s correct. the New York Giants. And I will say that our punter Stan Kemp was one of the best punters in in in while he was playing. He was really good at that. Getting them inside uh you know the 10 yard line and stuff like that. So you’re running the linebacker blitz there. Um, I think I What do you remember about the the the crowd at this game? Well, you know, yeah, it’s I don’t remember anything about it, to be honest with you. Okay. I I know there was a good tendance and they put us up in a monastery the night before and we’re up there watching some of the stuff from the parade that was shining.

Okay. But uh that was crazy. Well, you know what? There were a lot of Michigan fans at the game. Do you remember a good turnout for Michigan? Oh, yeah. There was a good turnout. But I remember at the the stadium held a 100,000 people, but it it seemed small to me. Yeah, it did seem small to me. Uh well, yeah, and you’re right. And if you look at it, it’s just not as wide uh as as the big hubs. Mhm. Yeah. You got your your offense has got some things that really give people problems. You know, Mike, you play defense. You know, you’re doing some things that a throwback. What do you re uh what do you guys remember about some of the things you guys did outside of football at the Rose Bowl?

Any stories about uh Disneyland? Did you guys do anything like that? I got one. Go ahead. We uh as you know with the Rose Bowl cars, you were told to take four or five people in the in the vehicle. Okay. So, I’m 21 years old because my mom and dad held me back because I had a December birthday. But I got my blazer on. I got my my good-looking trousers on. We got the Michigan shirt going on. And we go to Whiskey A Go-Os. [laughter] I remember that. Yeah. And I walked up to the door and there were people, you know, lined up to get in. So I said, “Can I speak to the manager?” And they said, “Well, sure.” And so I said, “Sure.” Okay, hang on.

Hang on one second. Okay. Okay. This is This is Look at Look at Look at Tom Mack pulling out here. Here’s your big tackle out here. And then and watch the running back. I think that’s Mel making this happen. But this is a great run. It’s Carl that’s running the Oh, that’s Carl there. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That’s great. It’s It’s over now for the for the the Oh, yeah. Go ahead. Finish your story, Tom. So, uh I I told the guy, I says, “Look, I got three other teammates.” I says, “Is it okay if we come in? They’re not 21.” He He says, “Sure.” And so within about five minutes, I I promised him that we would probably I wouldn’t serve him any drinks or anything, and I lied like a mother scratcher.

About five minutes we got in there, we were drinking. [laughter] And watching those pretty girls in those trapes. Yeah. [laughter] I thought this was interesting. Uh Mike, you got your you got a defense your starting defensive tackle, offensive tackle. He’s covering kickoffs. Yeah. [laughter] How many you see that? You don’t you don’t see that uh very much. Starting offensive, you know, well, he’s actually Yeah. Anyway, that’s a great play by your defensive tackle, offensive tackle, covering a kickoff. Connley’s on and he gets the tackle right there. Yeah, he makes the tackle. Connley’s on kickoff. You got Well, you only got 44 guys. Everybody’s got to do something, man. Right. [laughter] Right. 25 minutesWell, I remember Connley got that one. Uh, I remember uh we had a dinner while we were there and that’s the first time uh uh I saw Arnold Palmer.

He was the I don’t know if you remember that. Uh Tom, he was a grand marshal of the parade, Mike. And that’s right. Remember when we had that banquet that night? Yeah. Yeah. Lorie, I think. Yeah. And I was next to uh God, who was I next to? The mother and father of of one of the players. And I forget who it was, but no. Uh, when I, uh, got back to the hotel, Pasadena Hotel, I had my arm in a sling and my father was standing about five yards from Arnold Palmer. Yeah. So, I’m introducing him and he says, “Well, hi.” And he didn’t know who Arnold Palmer was. Okay. And I said, “Dad, this is Arnold Palmer, the golfer.” Oh. He says, “I apologize.

I’m so sorry. And yeah, but I remember that one. Yeah. Okay. Talk to me about this this little animal that shows up on the field. What do you guys remember about this pig? We had a pig out there. I don’t remember how he got out there, but there was a pig running around. There he is right there. Yeah. Did you see that? Roll that. Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. That’s something. We lost Anthony. Uh, we lost. I I did I did an episode with a guy that played in the 57 team. There were a bunch of veterans on that team. Did you guys didn’t have any military veterans, did you? No, I can’t recall any. Yeah, we lost Tom’s picture, Mick. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my god. I’m down here.

Right down there. See here? I’m at the bottom. I’m below you. I see you there. I see your picture there still, Tom. Yeah. Okay. I’m sit up on my Yeah. Get Get up on that telephone book. There we go. There we go. No, I don’t know what happened to him. All right. So, let me ask you guys this then. Uh uh Mike, I’m going to start with you. You got a lot of hardware in your showcase. You you’ve done a lot of things you’re proud of. Where where does this uh Big Ten championship ring that you got from this football team rank? So, it’s so halftime it’s 12 to7. Let me ask you this question before we ask you about the ring. What are you guys thinking?

What what’s the mindset in in the locker room? Are you got real confident? Oh, yeah. We were we were bigger, faster, and more than that, meaner than they were. Uh I agree. That’s that’s a good description right there. Yeah. Uh and I think we were confident all the way through. We would never live it down if a big 10 team lost to a fiscal. You’re right. 28 minutesOkay. So, you stutter right there. You stuttering right there, Jimmy. Mike, let me There you go. Mike, get back to that question I had. Where where does this uh Big Ten Championship ring rank? I mean, you look, you played in the Super Bowl. You’ve done a lot of great things as an athlete. And where does it rank in your uh showcase?

Can I answer that question? Go ahead. Either go ahead, Tom. Go ahead first then, Tom. Okay. So, I went to the athletic director up in Flint. It took us seven years to get our Rose Bowl ring, Justin’s ring. Okay. And I came up and I said, “What do we need to do?” Okay. And he he says, “Well, uh, you guys might have to pay something.” And I says,”I think that’s okay.” And so we ended up paying, if you remember, Mike, we paid $150 and they paid $250 for $400. At our 60th, no 50th Rose Bowl reunion. We were out there at uh out there where uh Witch McCall’s place is. Okay. Uh, and he said he saw our Rose Bowl ring going for $13,500 on eBay.

Can you believe that? Wow. But anyway, Tom, the bottom line is you you cherish the hell out of your ring. Oh, absolutely. I kind of have mixed emotions. Yeah. be because of uh how to be very honest with you uh uh Chrysler was not the nicest person. Oh, absolutely correct. And and to a lot of us, he looked down on us and Okay. That’s one of the reasons why I it took me 15 to 20 years to come back to any affair that was being uh uh presented by Michigan. Yeah. And and that and if you talk to Tom Goss, he had a a tough time getting any of us to come back to Michigan. Uh, and it’s the the reason it’s it’s because of why we were recruited and then things that happened while we were there.

Yeah. And uh these are things that I’m sure uh being the type of person that he is and many of the players uh may not have understood. Yeah. Well, it was the early 60s and uh and everybody there was a lot going on in America, but I I I continue to see 83 Liy making plays. Uh he’s a good player. Oh, there are a lot of good players on this. Oh, you guys. Yeah, you got good You got no weaknesses, man. And they and you rotate a lot of guys. Yeah. I I have I just say that that the the my my most memorable people are the three dogs, Don Cannam, Don James, and Don Dufekt. Boy, that’s a good that I totally agree with you there, buddy.

I mean, is that Yerby again? Yeah. You know, um Mike, we were talking before we went out. No, that’s uh Anyway, we were That’s not We were talking Okay, everybody talks about Michigan State and Duffy going down south and getting all these black athletes and, you know, having those great teams in the mid60s, Bubba and Webster and all those guys. Uh why don’t you uh fill fill us in on on how you things that were going on in Ann Arbor at the same time? Well, I don’t know if if Tom realizes this, but uh that 63 class was one of the largest uh class uh the largest class of black athletes, black football players who were recruited. It was a very very large uh class and and we knew that it was because Michigan State was doing the the very same thing.

And uh there were times there where we didn’t feel that welcome. And as I mentioned uh in one of my uh speeches uh at Michigan uh a couple years ago that we were very very proud and wanted to be Michigan men, but at times we didn’t know if Michigan wanted us to be Michigan men. Wow. And I’m learning something from you there right now. Yeah. Because I, if I’m not mistaken, in ‘ 64, if you look at our Rose Bowl picture that was taken, I believe we had nine Africanameans. U Mike, you can I mean I I can go upstairs and and count them, but I mean uh and every one of those guys contributed. I mean, they’re phenomenal athletes. All of them. Yeah. Yeah, but you know, Tom, he was I I think what Mike was saying that, you know, what was going on at Michigan State kind of forced Michigan’s hand.

Uh just like, you know, everybody talks about Bear Bryant when he started to make his change, you know, to recruit the black black a well was it was going 34 minuteson in Ann Arbor. Uh maybe a lot of it was motivated by what the competition was doing, right? Am I right, Mike? Yes. And it and it wasn’t the coaches, it was the feeling that we got when we walked past Chrysler uh and some of those older uh alumni. The only positive older alumni that I can recall is uh Benny Sterban. Yeah. Uh, but it was if you’ve been if you’ve been around these things as long as I have and had these experiences, uh, you smell things. Yeah. When they’re not right. And and the football team was almost a sanctuary.

35 minutesWell, hey, Mike, that’s why you’re here, man. To, you know, people don’t know that you’re here to tell them the truth and tell them how you what you lived. Uh, I’m going to try to blend some football in while we’re going. Again, I just really impressed with technique of of the way you guys watch how they come off the ball. Low moving guys. This again, this is your favorite play. Look how they’re just low moving guys, man. You can see the toughness, man. Like you talked about, Mike. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But yeah, you know, that’s that’s it’s important that you uh you get that that uh that message out there, Mike, what you experienced. It’s it’s the reality. Here’s another different play. And you know, Vulk is another guy.

Um I didn’t talk enough about him, but he he’s playing both ways, too. Yeah. And he’s he’s catching the ball. He’s blocking guys, and he’s he’s starting on defense. He’s a good player. Yeah. He he was my little brother in the fraternity. He was actually a quarterback. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, he was actually a quarterback. Uh, was Ohio. Yeah, that’s right. His his uncle was an all-American. Chapas. Yes, he was. Chapas. Yes, he was at Michigan. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Mhm. and and actually uh I went to Michigan as well uh having been encouraged to do so by lol Perry who was an all-American at Michigan in the I remember 40s. Yeah. His 47 probably 417. Yeah. Yeah. That’s right. His he his father was a dentist.

My dentist. His sister was my dad’s uh uh nurse in his office for 30 odd years. Wow. And uh and uh it was LOL who encouraged me to consider Michigan as well. Uh and uh like and he he ended up going to Pittsburgh with the Steelers. Um and again and he was on the Rose Bowl team. You’re right, uh, Tom, in 47, I believe. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Now, the substitutions rules, uh, you guys lived through it in high school where it was certain a certain way. And then, anyway, here’s David Fiser getting in the game. Big 33. He’s, uh, I just point him out. Looks like a big physical guy. Oh, yeah. He’s about 5’8. Yeah. About 240. [laughter] Well, he could run, man. He Yes, he could.

He could run. He could run. Okay. Now, who scores that? That’s Mel. Let’s see. What play are you running? You’re running that trap again. Pulling the right guard. Let me see. Oh, pulling the Oh, left guard. Yeah, pulling the near side guard. This guard is These guys are blocking down. This guy’s kicking out. Right. Right. And the uh near back is getting the ball. Yeah. See how See, I just thought it was kind of wet cuz everybody’s jerseys look like they got mud on them. 40. I don’t know. Um anyway, the substitution rules that you’re, you know, when you guys were younger, they had these strict rules and I just was looking up the rule book. They really started to soften up on them where 65 was just straight, they didn’t even bother anymore.

You could two platoon. You if you guys remember some of that stuff, we’re we’re almost near we’re getting near the end. Uh but when you guys were in high school, did you guys play with leather helmets? No. No. No. Okay. So they all had face mask and plastic hard helmets your whole career. Yeah. Yeah. One bar face mask. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Anyway, they’re not really moving the ball on you guys. No. No. They we we beat them up. We beat him up. Yes, we did. Yeah. the uh the the national letter of intent which is a a kind of a commitment that a player signs. You guys remember signing that later on in your career there? I I do remember. You better not. Anyway, that’s that all started uh in 1964 actually.

It was a where the player signs this letter. It’s called a national letter of intent where it’s a it’s a it’s the school is going to honor it and the player is going to honor it. So anyway, I thought you guys might want to know that that all started in ‘ 64 here. That way they can’t run you off, you know. Yeah. You know, Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo told my parents here wedge blocking here, you know, hey, we’re going to honor the honor it for if it takes him five years, we’re going to, you know, he’s going to graduate.

So, you guys are up 277 and it’s the uh getting to the fourth quarter here. Got to be the fourth quarter. Yeah. Yeah. So, you’re running some straight tea here. You got your quarterback wedging. Yeah. You’re just knocking them off the ball, man. Um did you guys come home uh the next day then? You remember? Yeah. We flew back to Willer Run and Laski and I reported to U of M hospital. Yeah. He had he broke his collar bone and I uh had my issue with my elbow. So Oh, he broke his he broke his collarbone in this game, huh? Uh yes. You know, cuz when when I played Bo uh and I went to five bowl games, 81 to 85 and and Bo’s philosophy was always to give us one day after the game uh to to you know, we spent the night an extra day always to just kind of just have fun, you know.

Yeah. Yeah. But uh anyway, you got this game in hand. I’m going to try to get through it then till you get I just remember the name of another of of another guy in the training room. Uh What? Uh Lindsay. Lindsay. Yeah, that’s I remember you. Lindsay. Yeah. Oh, he was the trainer. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. He was like uh Jim’s uh assistant. Okay. He was he was older, I do believe. Yes. Yes. What do you guys remember? Uh you have a memory of the locker room after the game. Uh it wasn’t much. Well, I I can’t I can’t remember to be honest with you at all. It wasn’t much to it. It reminded me of of Buffalo’s locker room. But uh it wasn’t that impressive.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Here’s Timberlake running around. Yeah. He’s a good athlete, man. Here you running option again. Yeah. You running. Get in there. Get in there. Touchdown. Um 10 minutes left. We’ll just get through it pretty quick here. You guys have any uh any other stories you want to tell? Okay. All right. So, you got a new c new quarterback. Who’s your second quarterback here, Tom? Uh, it could be Wally Gabler. Could be. Let’s see who looks like 25. Could have been Evesty. Let me see here. Uh, was Evie in the Yeah, that’s Evie. That I could just tell by the way he’s running. 26er. Yeah, that’s what I thought. Yeah. Yeah, that’s Yeah. Forest Aasheski’s son. Yeah. You know, Mike, I was at practice uh this spring and uh I see Escalades, I see BMWs.

It’s a whole different world than when we were playing. And you guys rem uh you know how many guys had cars? Not many. Uh, I remember I had a little Corvair with the rear engine. [laughter] H, and it got me those seven miles back to H Ypsilanti to see my mom and dad. Okay, hang on. We got this guy in the game here now. We know this guy right here. There he is. Oh, there he is. There’s Tom right there. Park Hill. Go ahead. Let’s take a look. So, you you Yeah. You know, uh, you know, Parky, h how much defensive work did you get throughout the season? Cuz you were a receiver. None. That was my first defensive I had 11 plays in there and that was the only defense I ever ran in all three years of playing.

Yeah. Here you are. Here. I mean, that’s, you know, that’s, you know, you’re in there, you’re doing a decent job, and you haven’t never played it. You know, you know what the hell you’re doing. No. Mike, did you get I I was trying to find Did you get in this game at the end, Mike? Uh, I think so. Yes. Yes. I just saw myself. I just Oh, okay. You’re You’re flashing in here now, right? Yeah. Up. It’ll be up at the top. That’s right. There’s she right there. 23. Right. Nope. 15 right here to the left of the Okay, so you Okay, cuz the the program had 20. This is you right here. Yes. Mhm. Okay. Yeah. All right. Well, let’s take a peek, man.

See what we got to So, you guys are in there getting some Getting some clock. That’s what the kids Hang in there. Hang in there. I know. I know it’s coming. Hey, this is Parky here. Yeah. And then Mike, you were in the back then. You you playing safety or corner? Uh corner, I believe. Okay. Okay. You’re forcing the play, Tom. Oh, I did such a nice job of forcing the play. You know, that’s what you got to do. You got to force it back inside. Where’s 15? Is this you here? I think that’s you. I think heck I can’t remember. I know. It’s been a long time, man. I get it. I just saw myself just a moment ago. I very very quickly right there.

There you go. Yeah. Right there. Yeah. Coming off the block. Yeah. Did you play in the Rose Bowl as a as a pro? Uh, let’s see. Pasadena. No, no, it was LA Coliseum or in obviously in San Diego or so the Super Bowl against the Dolphins was where? Uh, the Coliseum. Okay. Yeah. All right. So, listen. As this is winding down, we we I Wait a minute. Wait a minute. God damn it. Oh, I’m not going to cut it off, Mike or Tom. I see you here. I just want to see me fall funny. Is this one the play you got hurt? Yeah, this is the play you got hurt right here. I’m not sure. No, I wasn’t there. I saw number 31. That was Barry Delin.

Here’s Oh, anyway, everybody’s getting in the game. So this is a great feeling for the whole team for sure. Yeah, absolutely. Everybody plays invites them to do that. That’s the best, you know, that’s the best kind of deal as a coach. Everybody plays, man. Here’s the play right there, I think. No, that wasn’t that play. Okay, this is you right here. Yeah, I that’s not the play that I got hurt, I don’t think. Well, you put some pressure on the quarterback. Put the put some pressure on him. Yeah. Yeah. We’re on the what yard line? 10 yard 15 yard line. Okay. Hey Mike, you want to talk about uh you know you I didn’t even get into the things you’ve done as a professional athlete, but there’s not many guys that uh had things you’ve done playing in a Super Bowl, play for Lombardi.

You know, you want to you want to give us uh some some some thoughts on your playing for uh you know, your your your pro experience? Well, again, I go back to uh really Don James making that change uh when I was going into my my junior year. Uh and I was drafted by the Packers in the 12th round. Uh John Rowser was drafted by the Packers in the third round and Rick Vote uh again went to the Colts. So, three out of the That was the play there. Oh, really? Right there. There’s the elbow right there. Oh yeah. Anyway, hang on, Mike. Let’s give Let’s give Parky a little love. Tom, you’re coming off the corner. Yeah. Yeah. You got a You got a shot at a sack here.

That was Paul Brothers. Wow. And he got away from me. Yeah. But you brought some heat. And you could see my arm there. Yeah. You’re over here grabbing something, man. Yeah, that’s what it was. What did you do to your arm? severed the triceps tendon. Wow. That was a long uh Paul with uh working with those guys in the training room. I’m telling you. Yeah. Okay, Mike. I’m going to let this ride. Go ahead. Talk to me about pro football. Well, uh, actually I didn’t never even expect it to be never even thought about playing professional football, uh, quite frankly, but I thought there might be a chance with my having been a starter for two years, uh, on that on that right corner. And, uh, I I held my own, but I never considered myself uh, proquality, so to speak.

These guys were always so much bigger or quicker or faster and so forth. But coach Lombardi thought enough to draft me uh draft both me and John Rowser. Uh and Rouseer made the team. I got cut the last uh cut before the season started. And but one of the things that made me stay was that coach Lombardi said in his br voice, “Mike, you can play in this league.” And uh because of that, I decided, “Okay, I I’ll stick around.” And I got picked up by Detroit. But I stayed there in Detroit for two years and they uh brought me up on the main I was on their ta cab squad. I was there for two years and got no credit towards my pension. And so I couldn’t wait to get out of Detroit and my wife and I sat and we wrote to every team uh and but before uh we could get a response.

I got a call from coach Lombardi and he actually called and said he wanted me to come to Washington and I jumped at the chance. Yeah. Unfortunately. Hey, real quick. Hey Tom, we lost you. to see if you can get your camera figured out. Hey, so people Mike people people want to know, talk about Lombardi, you know, what were his strengths? What were his strengths as a leader? Well, I played and I’m one of the few people who can say that uh they played for Vince Lombardi and George Allen. Both of them are in the Hall of Fame. Both of them were winners, but they went about it in different ways. Coach Lombardi challenged you every day. Every day in practice, and he treated everybody the same, just like dogs, even Barkstar and uh Sunonny Jurgensson and these guys.

But he was like that father figure that you’d run through the wall. uh just to get him to say say your name, say good job. And I went to training camp and a guy missed a tackle and he put me in there uh at at the right corner spot and I stayed there for 10 year eight years and 104 games. Wow. uh and it was being again uh making some sort of impression and the impression I think that I made during my career was that I never made mental mistakes. I wasn’t the best tackler, wasn’t the the the fastest or the quickest, but I studied and studied and studied to the point where in a with a half a second look, I could see a lot of different things.

And this was because of the emphasis that coach Lombardi put on preparing. He only lasted one year there in Washington. he passed away and then George Allen came in and that’s when I really learned football. Uh in a matter of uh and again in my career I gave up uh eight touchdown passes. I played 104 straight games, 30 interceptions and I actually must have done all right because uh the Redskins put me in their their ring of fame. So, the best parts of my career were in the pros, not so much in college, but it was really uh the start was in college with the fellows that I that I played with uh in particular at Michigan and again in the pros, particularly in Washington.

They were good football players, respectful football players, but we all owed it to the coaches that we had. Bombardi treated us less just like dogs. And at the same time, George Allen uh uh treated us with the respect that you would give older players who knew what they were doing. And it it made a big difference the fact that we got the respect of the coaches that we played for. And again, Coach Lombardi and George Allen uh were player coaches. Uh, and you could tell that they cared and it it made a it made an awful lot of difference. So, you had a good high school coach. Obviously, you you guys both had great parenting and uh but your Mount Rushmore from a coaching standpoint, Mike, your your top four guys and your Mount Rushmore, Don Duick, Don James, are they in there?

Oh, yeah. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Those two are because those guys really uh you know, if if you don’t Go ahead. Give me give me your top four then. It’s got It’s got to be five. The three Dons, Coach Lombardi, and and George Allen. Okay. And I always say Coach Lombardi and George Allen because Coach Lombardi was that father figure and and George was that was the type of relationship that he wanted us to have with him. He uh he’d never been on the right corner, so he didn’t know about he never played linebacker, but he had a mind uh for defensive football. And he was the type of guy who didn’t give a damn about offense. He I remember him telling uh I think it was Sunny, maybe Kilmer, “Okay, offense, go on in there and hold and then the defense will win this going away.

And it made us feel special as as defensive players. The defense uh offense puts butts in the seats. Defense wins championships. And George Allen, his he was a defense. His strength was defense. That’s right. Uh there was just no way that a rookie could play for George. George said, you know, if you were a rookie, you were lucky to make the team. He maybe kept maybe one and he would trade away his draft choices. He’d trade away draft choices that he didn’t even have quite because he wanted older fellas. So the the older guys will not make mental mistakes may they may not be as fast or as quick but they know how to play as a team. knowing where your help is, relying on the guy next to you, and knowing that that the strength is in our togetherness.

As a matter of fact, our country could learn a lot uh uh quite frankly uh about uh working and pulling together uh and all of that making us better and a lot stronger instead of this divisiveness that’s going through our communities. Yeah. Hey, I’m going to let you guys uh make make one last final comment. Um it’s been a pleasure to talk to you guys. These are, you know, I’m I’m a we’re like brothers, man. Michigan is like brothers. Anytime you meet a Michigan guy, I never met you, Mike, but hopefully one day I get to shake your hand. Tom, I finally got to meet Tom. It’s like I got a connection to both you guys. I coast at Ypsilanti High where you went, Mike.

And then I Tom, you you people don’t Tom Park used to get help get guys jobs, you know? He he got he got uh blessed got a job at General Motors and helped a lot of players uh and and for many years get good work and I always want to thank Tom Perkill for that. But Tom, I’m going to let you go first. This is going to be the final thought. We’re going to wrap it up here then in about four or five minutes. Just you guys, let me just say this. You guys did a great job representing your team, your era, you know, and and people will see this thing uh this video for a while here. And uh Tom, give me your final thought about uh your Michigan experience, your teammates, your whatever the heck you want to talk about.

Tom, this is your final final shot. Well, I just a very fortunate guy to have the opportunity to go to my first away game, a Rose Bowl. Okay. And I enjoyed it. I enjoyed my teammates. Okay. And I am trying to get Mike to be honored in any way we can for what he’s accomplished uh at at in Washington. Okay. Not many players are in the Hall of Honor around that field. Okay. So Mike, I’m not afraid to call Ward and find out, but I’m in your corner 100% and I will not give up. Well, being a pain in the ass to the athletic department. You know how to be a pain in the ass. I know that. [laughter] No, I remember your father was a a a doctor and your mother was a teacher and you are one hell of a guy.

I appreciate it. We have a we have a legacy at at uh Michigan. My, as I told you, my dad got a a degree in public health from Michigan. I went to Michigan. And I never I hadn’t mentioned this yet, but my my sister’s son was a graduate of Stanford and chose to go to Michigan’s med school. and he’s now been practicing for I don’t know how many years in as an orthopedic trauma surgeon uh in in uh California. Wow. So uh and I’ve got quite frankly a a grandson who is going into his senior year. He’s got about a 35 average. He’s he’s 68 and he’s a basketball player and he’s Wow. I’d like to if anything I really don’t want him to go to any of those southern schools quite frankly and give them the benefit of his talent.

So hopefully Michigan will reach out. Uh there’s no reason he should be going to a school where its legislature is going to stop people from voting. Yeah. I mean, that’s the way I feel about it. Uh, I’m happy to have been one of the largest uh classes of black athletes in in the n in 1963. Very proud of that. At the same time, very proud to have been a part of the defensive backfield that I was in with me, uh, John Rowser and Rick Bulk. And you might recall Frank Nunley uh is from a little town right outside of uh Ypsilanti Belleville called Belleville. That’s right. Uh uh I learned a lot coming to Michigan and playing on that Michigan football team. And that’s where I learned a lot of the not only uh how important teamwork is and and how much camaraderie is, but I began to learn a lot of about the uh social issues that we experience today.

And you can’t really talk to me about any of those things unless you’ve walked in my shoes. It’s not been easy, but at the same time, I had coaches Lombardi and George Allen who I said many, many times, it’s not how many times you get knocked down, it’s how many times you get back up. Uh, I really uh have enjoyed these couple of hours in reminiscing about that time when I was just a kid. Uh, you know, 19 years old, 18 years old. uh going to the to the Rose Bowl, it made big difference and I had a feeling of what it was like to be uh on a successful football team and I thrived for that uh throughout my football career. So, thanks so much, Jim.

I do appreciate it. And Parky, it’s great to hear from you again. I appreciate Well, thank you, buddy. And I’ll say this, one of the people that I really admired at our celebration there two years ago, Bill Hardy. Yes. Bill Hardy. Yeah. What a wonderful guy and a wonderful memory he still has. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Unbelievable. But my whole point is, you know, it’s not a matter of numbers of how many black athletes you have. It’s the quality of the guys. And I think if if I were, you know, if I it could do it over again, I would I would I’d do it, man. I’ I’d love playing with those guys. Well, it goes back to again uh the quality of the of of all of us uh and especially uh football players.

uh we know how to work together. We know how to depend Yep. on each other. And it goes it’s the uh character of of the type of people that Michigan recruited and we’ve all gone on to do uh great things not only for ourselves but for others. Amen. That’s the Michigan tradition. Thanks, buddy. Well, listen. We we’re doing this so people can not people can go online and look at the old films from back 30, 40, 50, but but you know what? We got a voice and we got stories connected to the film now. That’s why, you know, it was so great for you guys to do this. Uh we’re going to sign out. It was a big pleasure for me uh to talk with you guys and everybody will learn from this and uh but we’re signing out.

It’s all good. Go blue and it’s been a pleasure. Go blue. Go blue. If you like this kind of content, please like, share, follow, and subscribe. And as always, go blue!]