1968 Michigan v No. 12 Michigan St | Throwback Film Review w/Dennis Brown and George Hoey

[Hail Media presents Throwback Film Review, where we go back to the tape and relive some of the greatest moments in Michigan history. Throwback Film Review is brought to you by OLIPOP, the feel-good soda. Knight’s Steakhouse, an Ann Arbor tradition. Valiant, supporting Michigan athletes and the Michigan community and Michigan Medicine, leaders in healthcare, research, and innovation. Now, let’s roll the tape and take it back. Hey, this is Greg Dooley and I’m real excited to bring another edition of Throwback Film Review to you. I teach the history of college athletics at Michigan. We just created an online course called the history of Michigan football. 12 lectures, 7 hours of footage, hundreds of images. It covers the early part way before the game we’re going to talk about today up to 1927. You can check out more at mvictors.com if you’re interested in that. But we’re talking about 1968. And this is really, really an interesting time period, not only in Michigan, but also college football history.

So, at Michigan, of course, this is Coach Bump Elliott’s last season in Ann Arbor. Sticks around a little bit, then goes off to a legendary career as an athletic director at Iowa. But this is Don Canham’s first year as athletic director and we are on obviously on the brink of a huge change with, you know, the big guy Bo coming in. And 68 is often forgotten really how good and talented not only this team was, but how well this season went. And there’s probably a few reasons for that, and I think the guys are going to talk about that when we get into this. But this team was loaded. And on top of that, Bump brought in this wildly great recruiting class. So the idea that the cupboard was full when Bo got here is definitely true. So it’s a rare case when you have a coach leaving and really things are in pretty good shape, but it’s probably remembered for how the season ended.

Yes, a triumph over Wisconsin. That’s of course the famous Ron Johnson 347-yard game. But then the trip to Columbus where we fought it out in the first half but then absolutely throttled. Lost 50 to 14 to Woody’s powerhouse team. This is the famous I couldn’t go for three game which by the way is a myth and maybe that’s a story for another segment [laughter] but he never said that. There’s no evidence of that. But you get it. But that all led to what came in 69. And these guys are responsible for that. And if you zoom out on college football at this time, I look at this as like a tectonic plate, right? That we’re right on the edge of what football used to be. That’s small, non-integrated, right? Limited substitution, low TV exposure football and almost immediately thrust into this new era of large teams integrated. Right? We just recruited the Mellow Men at this time.

Michigan, our first large black recruiting class, and suddenly you get TV contracts that get into the millions and we’re off. Right. So, if I had to pick a more recent time to say we’re right on the edge, I think it’s about right here this season. In this game, we face a really, really powerful Duffy Daugherty team. And for Michigan, I feel like this is about the time when, yeah, Ohio State and Michigan State are absolutely rivals, but we got to get over the hump with those great Duffy Daugherty teams, right? And the Biggie Munn teams before that, and they’re winning national championships. So, we got to get over the hump. So, our focus a lot during this time period is on Michigan State, which leads us to this game. So, huge thank you to the Bentley Historical Library, Jay Winkler, of course. Hail Media, my brothers at FAM.

And without further ado, let’s head back October 12th, 1968 as we face the Spartans in this edition of Throwback Film Review with Jim Scarcelli with special guests Dennis Brown and George Hoey. Go Blue. Hey, welcome, welcome Hail Media, the Michigan Football Throwback series. We’re on our fourth episode and it’s been going great and we’re having fun with it. Bringing old legends back and before I get going with the old legends, we got to do our little business real quick. OLIPOP is a proud sponsor of Hail Media and I’ve tried it. I love it. I take it before I go to the gym. It tastes great. It’s way less sugar. So OLIPOP, check it out. We love it at Hail Media. And one other thing, Knight’s Steakhouse in Ann Arbor, they are another sponsor of Hail Media and they’ve been around forever. But I have two great Michigan legends with us today here. George Hoey is here from Colorado.

George was a defensive back and he worked in the academic part when I was here. George, how you doing today? I’m doing fairly well for an old guy, you know. And then we got the quarterback on that 1968 team. So, if I didn’t say it, this is the 1968 review throwback, Coach Brown. We got Denny Brown from Lincoln Park. Denny, how you doing today? I’m doing good, Jim. Thank you. And great, George. Great to see you, partner. Same here, Denny. So, you know, I was Who am I to introduce you guys? You guys know each other a hell. You know what, George, why don’t you just tell me who the heck is Denny Brown? You guys came in together as freshman. You know each other well. Who we talk? Who is Denny Brown? Tell me about him. [laughter] If I had to describe Denny Brown, I mean, he came into Michigan, I mean, just hell been for leather. I mean, he was on fire.

He wanted to play and he was going to find a way to get on the field. And he was the field general when he was on the field. I sometimes think during those days, you know, we had a pretty open offense and I went to Michigan as a running back. So, I was trying to find my way in, but switch the DB DB Denny Brown switch the defensive back in a very short period of time. But, when I watched Denny play, Denny was, I mean, we had an option play in the offense and the only option for Denny was to turn it up cuz he was looking for he was looking for a seam in that line and he was going to take the field and just get up, get some yards, do some damage. But, coming from Lincoln Park, my coming from Flint, you know, very different atmospheres, but we managed to get along quite well over the years.

And as you can tell, we still maintain a relationship. So, I appreciate that very much. Coach, Coach Brown, tell me about your teammate, George Hoey. George Hoey, as I told you guys before we got on, one of one of the nicest people that you’ll ever meet. Humble great athlete, track guy, football guy, and as I told you, he ran the first 4340 that I ever saw. And like I told you, it looked like he was just, you know, just gliding over the surface. But on on the field, off the field, gentleman, nice guy, very disciplined. We got along smashingly from the very get-go. I don’t know what the chemistry was there, but we latched on together and did our thing. And it was wonderful to see the success that he had after we graduated and went on to do all of his academic stuff and his stent in the NFL and just and has maintained that humble solid really good guy. Yeah.

So, if those of you that don’t know, my name is Jim Scarcelli and I played 81 to 85 at Michigan for Schembechler, but I had experiences with both of the of the gentlemen here today. And the first I was a junior in high school, 1979, and everybody went to the Michigan football camp. You wanted to get discovered, you wanted to get coached, and there was I thought there were maybe up to 2,000 people there. And I’m an outside backer and I’m just a clueless little kid from Warren, Michigan. And the guy coaching the outside backers for Michigan was a guy named was Dennis Brown. And I just coach I just remembered a fired up, enthusiastic, take charge. You know, you were coaching us up. You were coaching up the kids that ain’t never plenty going to make their high school team like you were coaching the guys that were going to get recruited.

And I just I told myself when I left that camp, man, I want to play for this guy. It was like a goal. I want to play for this fired up dude, Denny Brown. So, coach, I you were an impact on me and you never would have known it. Well, I appreciate you know that. Nice. Good to hear. Thank you. George, you know, I was you were you were the academic guy that helped with a lot of you had a whole bunch of people under you. So people should understand that George Hoey had a lot of responsibilities and George I don’t want to get list all of them but all I know this now this is what I know about George Hoey.

George I didn’t even know you played you were such a great player until I start researching you for this team that you played in the N I just thought you were this nice guy that helped us out that cared about us that made sure we were we were you know on on a on a path to graduate and it was obvious you cared about us. So, both of you guys, I had an experience with both of you and I love both of you guys and that’s where we’re at. So, coach, that’s that was my experience with both of you. Coach Brown, thank you. How and why did you end up in Ann Arbor? Well, you don’t even want to know that one. I’ll tell I’ll tell you the honest truth, okay? I was pretty heavily recruited, particularly for a little guy, and I was not going to leave the state of Michigan.

I had an older brother that was a running back and went to Arizona State and just, you know, didn’t stay but a semester. So anyway, it’s getting time to make a decision and we had until April back at that time, George, you’ll remember. And as a coach recruiting into April, I mean that was, you know, it was a long time. But anyway, so coach daughter called me on the phone one night and he said, “Well, you know, Dennis, it’s getting time to start making a decision and what what do you think, you know, what are your leanings? What are you going to do?” And I was being very honest and I said, “Coach, I’m I’m really really excited about my opportunity to come to Michigan State, but I you know, I really like Michigan.” He hung up on me. He hung up on me.

And my dad was in the living room reading a newspaper and I went and I said, “Hey, Dad Coach Daugherty just hung up on me on the phone.” [laughter] So, I’m glad. Yeah, cold, man. So, I’m glad I got a chance to redeem myself and wind up in Ann Arbor. But that was I fell in love with Bump Elliott and Bob Holloway. My weekend there, Frank Nunley and Rick Volk were just they were part of the group. Don Bailey, God rest his soul, him and Vidmer took the whole class on one of my recruiting visits because we could we could we could visit anytime we wanted to. But we went to the show down at the Michigan Theater, the State Theater, and they had us doing the goostep all the way down State Street. Bailey was in the back and Vidmer was in the front and it was snowing and we just had a hell of a time. So that’s my story.

And I’m sticking to it. George, how about you? You came from Flint. How’d you end up in Ann Arbor? That’s a good question, but it was it turned out to be a pretty easy decision when all was said and done because in Flint, the pipeline to go to college for a football player was to East Lansing. I mean, all the great players out of Flint Northern, Flint Central, when they were getting recruited and signing those letters of intent, they were going to Michigan State. And, I didn’t find out until, goodness, years later that I was the first African-American football player from Flint to get a full scholarship. But I was recruited yeah say heavily probably was being recruited so much heavily but I reduced the number in a short period of time and I took visits down to Purdue Michigan State you know themies wanted me to come and I couldn’t see myself in that kind of a uniform so I just shut that down.

But I remember talking to Bump on my visit. And Bump said to me, “George, we want you to come to Michigan because your high school coach, you know, Bob Leach was a Michigan man with his twin brother, Dick Leach. And the dentist of our high school football team, Dr. BB, was also Michigan grad. And I talked up and I he said, you know, we have two pretty good running backs and Carl Ward and Jim Detwiler. And freshman couldn’t play then. He says, “So, you may not see the field as a running back until your junior year.” but one thing I can promise you, I can promise you a full scholarship to the University of Michigan and you will have an opportunity to get a degree from the University of Michigan. And I said, “I’m in.” And after that conversation, I received this one call I remember particularly from Missouri, Dan Devine. And he says, “George, this is Coach Divine down in Missouri.

How you doing?” I said, “I’m doing fine, coach. How are you?” He says, “I’m just calling because I want you to come down and take a visit.” And I said, “Coach, I just met with Bump Elliott and I’m going to Michigan.” I said, “so I don’t want to come down and take this visit just to waste your time and my time because I know where I’m going.” And he says, “Well, Michigan’s a fine school and you can’t go wrong there. But let me tell you this. If you ever have any issues being at Michigan and you’re looking for another home, you always have a home down here in Missouri. So, good luck to you and we’ll go from there. I said, “Thanks, coach. See you later.” So, my days at Michigan and I had an older brother who was on a partial track scholarship at Michigan. He was two years ahead of me and that was also an influence, but not a great influence.

I’d say mostly was to my high school coach and team Dennis. Team dentist wanted me to go to Michigan and become a dentist. And I thought, we’ll cross that bridge when we get to it. That never happened. Yeah. Well, hey, let me Jim, let me throw something out here that is kind of like George knows the elephant in the room. George was part of one of the maybe at the time the largest group of black football players to come into the University of Michigan. Am I right George? Yep.

And I think what needs to be said, and it’s a sad commentary, and there is a great ex player at Michigan by the name of Mike Bass who can speak to this to a degree that it’s heartbreaking, but Michigan was way behind, way behind with recruiting black athletes for football, and there was a reason for And I found out the reason talking to Mike Bass a year ago, but we’re not going to cover that here. But I just want to tell you and I want to tell George. George, I love you. You are a great friend of mine still. We bonded at Michigan and I am so glad that I was part of that class that brought in these outstanding black athletes to the to the program. And George and I can name him cuz I can I can name most of them right now.

But anyway yeah that yeah when he says I had Mike on a couple weeks ago with the 64 you guys people want to listen to that and he Michigan State gets all this recognition as Duffy brought all these guys in from the south but Michigan the bass group was there was like nine 10 guys you know there was a lot of guys in that group that did a lot of the same things you know and I just thought that was interesting that Mike Mike brought that up. So, okay. So, you guys are recruited. Michigan just wins the Big Ten championship. They just win the Rose Bowl. The team the 64 champs, they win the Rose Bowl and you guys are recruited and you’re committed. What What are your What are your memories? Danny, I’ll start with you on this one. What are your memories of the first training camp or coming in the summer coming in? Any any stories there? Your first training camp?

Not really. You know, the freshman weren’t eligible. We played in the toilet bowl on Mondays. Played against the guys that didn’t get a lot of time in on Saturday. But I, you know, it was just you’re learning a new system. You’re going to class. I don’t know how freshman do it to be honest with you. I don’t know. When I was coaching, I didn’t know how they did it. And we I remember starting a fresh middle linebacker when I was at West Virginia. But anyway, make a long story short, I got to tell this story about George and I. So Dennis Fitzgerald was our freshman coach and we come off the practice field one day and the facilities were awful. Just awful. But anyway, we’re walking into our our locker room and he had a little locker room off to the side where he could shut the door.

He says to me and George, “Hey, let me see let me see you two guys.” I know George remembers this. So we walk in and I’m I’m not the biggest guy that they recruited and I was probably the shortest. I probably had a couple pounds on George, but George was the tallest of the of he and I of the little guys. So he closes the door, Gerald says. He says, “Now look, we’ve got a newspaper here on campus called the Michigan Daily, and they’re going to come down and want to interview you guys.” And he said to he said to me, “Don’t you tell them how tall you are.” And he looks at George, he says, “Don’t tell them how much you weigh.” [laughter] That’s the truth. May the Lord strike me dead. Absolutely. George, you got a memory of what it was like coming in.

You’re, you know, be being coming from high school and now here you are with, you know, this team that just won the Big Ten championship. And the thing that stands out for me is not so much on the practice field, but just and finding out who my roommate was and I’m coming into Michigan and you know, I’m all state and I’m all this and I’m all that. Saginaw Valley. I thought, “Okay, so I don’t know who my roommate is. I don’t know how the assignments are made.” So, I show up at South Quad and throw my stuff in the room and there’s this guy already in the room and he says, “my name is Ron Johnson and I’m from Detroit Northwestern.” And I said, “Oh, good to meet you, Ron. You know, George Hoey, Flint Central.” And who would know that we were both competing at running back to try and get some playing time.

And I tell the story that and this is not talking about freshman year and camp and so forth, but you know as it played out you know Ron went on as become that great great person and player on offense and I went to defense and sometimes I’m asked the question how did you end up on defense and I just say my roommate was Ryan Johnson. [laughter] That’ll do it. Every time. Hey Denny, you shared something that was interesting that I can’t even relate to it that you said when guys came in, they would be taught an offensive position and a defensive position. In today’s football, you really wouldn’t that wouldn’t happen. Explain, go through that real quick. Well, you know, because freshman weren’t eligible, they wanted to evaluate what they thought you would be better at.

So, that freshman’s, spring, George will tell you, we split this the spring ball on offense for a couple weeks and then on defense for a couple weeks and then they they put us in a in a in a position and I think George came back as a running back our sophomore year originally. Cuz I remember our freshman backfield was he was one running back, Ron Johnson was the other running back and when I ran the option I wouldn’t pitch the ball to either one of them. [laughter] And so but anyway, so George wound up over on defense and I mean he returned kicks, he intercepted passes, he yeah, he did it all. And he was he was a guy that, you know, every time the ball was kicked to him, you had no idea if he was going to take it to the house or what he was going to do with it. But he was he was special. There’s no question.

He wound up exactly where he was supposed to. George, you got any any thoughts about that playing you? So, every that’s how it was. Everybody was a two-position guy and they that’s how they taught it. I want to go over this real quick just just to get an idea of the of your teammates. You know, I thought it was real. Can you guys George, can you see the roster? I can see it. Yeah. Okay, Danny, you got me? I got you. Okay. You know, I see this freshman group. Yep. When you guys were seniors, there’s like 50 guy 50 dudes, you know, a lot of really great players there. That’s one thing. And then there’s but anyway, just looking at the recruiting, I guess I brought this up just to get an idea of the of where the recruiting was. And you know, these are the freshman when you guys are seniors. You see Michigan, little New Jersey, Ohio, Michigan, Michigan, Ohio.

You know, here’s an Illinois, but look, all Michigan, Illinois, Michigan, Ohio. Yep. And as we get into the varsity guys now, the guys that are have been around, it’s it’s still it’s Michigan, Ohio, ton of Michigan. I just wanted to go over that real quick and let you guys comment on, you know, that’s kind of what it was Michigan, Ohio, a little Illinois, a little Indiana, every now and then maybe a little Texas. I didn’t really see any Florida at that time. Any thoughts on that? Well, I’m not sure that Michigan was interested very much in going outside that Quad State. You know, they had great success in the Chicago Catholic League. I remember one time in the 70s when I was there, the entire tackle total was Chicago Catholic League. I mean, they just had you know, Chicago is a great alumni feeder.

And so, I think they were basically, if you want, they were they had to they had no choice because they were not going to be able to continue to win the Big Ten championship with just Michigan and Ohio kids on the on the roster. Okay, that’s my opinion. We’re going to get on the film here in a minute, but you know, I did five years at Michigan. If you said, “Okay, you know, who are guys?” You guys did four. You guys just did four, right? Each of you. Yeah. Right. Okay. It said, “Okay, George, who are the guys that you say, man, I just respected the heck I know you I could list a lot. I know this is a maybe a tricky question. Who are guys that you say, man, that guy, I just respected him.” You know, guys that might have been older than you that you learned from. I know you talked about Mike Bass. I read something you said.

Who are guys when you say, “Man, that was a mentor to me, maybe as a coach or a player.” two people come out, one player and one coach, and I didn’t play with him that much, as an undergraduate, John Rowser, and John Rowser has passed on. But he was in that back field with the Sygar, Volk, and Bass, and those guys, I mean, they had pro careers. And but John Rowser and I also connected later u in the NFL when we were at Denver together. But in terms of football knowledge, being disciplined, understanding the game, I think he took for me anyway the game of playing defensive back to another level. I think he and Don James were the ones who gave me my defensive football acumen. And each one of them used to say that if you’re on defense and you’re playing, you need to know what every person on the defense is doing on every assignment or every play.

And I took it to heart. I thought, you know, they wouldn’t tell me that just for kicks. So I started to learn defense that way. And I knew if a linebacker had a drop out or drop back or if he was going to look for the curl, you know, we were talking and I felt comfortable doing that. And I think that’s probably why given my height, given my size, why I was able to succeed the way I did even at the next level is because those individuals taught me what I knew about football and how to be a better player at that. The other thing too when I think about what Dennis was talking about earlier playing both two positions offense defense and look at our secondary senior year you look at Tom Curtis look at Brian Healy and you look at Barry Pierson and I mean former high school quarterbacks you know and playing in the secondary and talk about getting some more education.

I mean, those guys knew what routes were going to be run, who was going to be coming in or running an out route, who was going to run the curl, who could jump on this, jump on that, and that was such I mean, that was just like that’s just a bonus. So that part of the game I love. But yeah, those two one coach Don James and player John Rowser, they were the ones who I think impacted me greatest. Coach Brown, how about you? Who are some mentors that you saw? Well, you know, as I as I mentioned to you before we got started here, George Mans was a great mentor to me. He was handling the passing game our senior year. But other than that, or besides that, you know, he would take me off to the side and I would meet with him after practice and so on. So, so I would have to say as a coach it would be George Mans.

Bump obviously had a great influence on all of us. He was such a gentleman. And you wanted you wanted to play for Bump. You wanted to play for Bump. And then when I when I look at I look at a couple of guys that didn’t that didn’t have to be nice to this guy, they had no reason to be nice to this little guy was Rick Volk, Frank Nunley, and Tom Parkhill. Those three guys were all two years ahead of us and they treated me like a human being, you know, like they like that when I look at our team, our class, George abs absolutely stands out. But a guy that stands out more than I think about and he’s no longer with us is Tom Stincic.

Tom Stincic was he was the guy that said very little and then when he got the gear on he would tear your head off and he went on to play in the in the National Football League for Dallas for a number of years and unfortunately he’s no longer with us but I did have the opportunity to see him a couple times when I was living in Arizona and he was coaching at one of the local high schools out there but he passed away two or three years ago. But there’s there’s a lot of guys on our roster that stand out to me and they’re not ne necessarily offensive guys other than RJ but you know I look at Tom Stincic particularly and I look at Jon Kramer an outside backer and I look at that secondary and yeah I mean another guy was Tom Goss. Tom Goss speaking of five-year guys Tom Goss was a five-year guy. Yep.

And he wound up being a defensive tackle for us and you know what he’s done. He’s gone on to be a terrific terrific guy and unfortunately things didn’t work out for him as AD at Michigan and it was unfortunate for me because I was an assistant AD under him. But, yeah, just, you know, I look at this roster here and I mean, I mentioned some guys to you and I and I’m taking up all the time, but just a plethora of guys that you know, when I look at this, George, I just happened to find the Michigan Michigan State program and it we’re throwing out and it just happened to pop up. So, I’ve been going through it. But yeah, I mean I look at it and man, some of these guys are doctors and lawyers and just you know, doing great things as as a lot of Michigan people do when they attend the University of Michigan.

You Let’s just Could you guys see the this little handout I got up here? The 1968 football team. Can you see it? You’re testing my vision. I can see it. Okay. Well, you know what? I’m just going to ask you. Okay. William Dodd, what did I It’s got the assistant coaches listed here. I just want to get some quick thoughts. William Dodd, who was he? What did he coach? I believe Bill Dodd was the freshman coach. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, he came in and was only here a couple years and then he left to go on to leave. He became an executive with Levi. How about Dennis Fitzgerald? What did he coach? D-line. D-line. Any stories about any of these guys? Feel free. So he coached the D-line. Dennis Fitzgerald Dennis Fitzgerald coached the D-line. He wound up coaching in the NFL with the Pittsburgh Steelers.

And when I was at West Virginia, I brought him down for a day to work us through what he knew. And he was a very interesting guy. Very interesting guy. But a great Michigan guy. He was an all-American wrestler. He I think he actually coached a wrestling team at one point in time. George, maybe you probably can solidify that for me. But yeah, he tough guy. Oh, I mean I think he won the Pan American Games in wrestling. He was a tough bastard, boy. Tough guy. But he was also referred to in small circles as Fitz is he’s crazy, man. [laughter] This guy is nuts. But I tell you, talk about being motivated and dedicated. That was him. I mean, he was all in all the time. Good. How about Hank Fonde? Hank Fonde. Yeah. Who did he coach? Hank coached the running backs and then the secondary at one point. So, he was my coach a couple of different ways.

And from Ann Arbor and just a quiet sort of unassuming kind of guy and but he was just finding his place in the rotation of coaches and knew some strategies and techniques but I can’t say that he got maybe all the respect that he deserves but agree but clearly you know he had a role to play and it was an effective role that he played and just getting us aligned and ready to play the game. Yeah, he had a favorite saying. I had him for a year. His favorite saying was take the cash and let the credit go. That was it was his big thing. How about Frank Maloney? Pink thing. George, I actually coached with Frank and he was a Chicago Catholic League coach. Came in and he coached the offensive line and then he went over to defense and he was a teammate of George Mans and he was a very quiet guy.

He from what I understand and I know I was with him when he was a defensive coach, defensive line coach, he was very very thorough and knew his stuff. Okay. He talked about Go ahead. Go ahead, George. Sorry. Sort of came off as sort of an academic on the football field and just not necessarily suave but [laughter] definitely someone who was sort of an intellectual football coach. Yeah, he went on to be the head coach at Syracuse. Good point. Yeah, I got recruited by him. I remember getting letters from him. I didn’t visit there but Okay, then you mentioned George man, down river Trenton guy. George, do you have any exper interaction with George Mans? Not much. I mean, he was just an influence in terms of being on the field and just having a demeanor that meant, you know what, you can be on the football field, you can tear people apart, but you can still have fun.

So, he just left that impression on me that this is a game that can be all-encompassing. You can be out. Yeah. Just giving it your all. But hey, when all said and done, we’re also here to play a fun game. Yeah. Interesting story. I’ve got a ton of them because I coach with some of these guys. But anyway, George wound up being a captain at Michigan and being down from the Trenton area, but I coached with him and we would talk and he was telling me one time that the only reason he got a chance to start at Michigan was that Bill Freehan decided not to play football. He decided that he was going to be a catcher. So, so anyway, that’s how he wound up being an outside linebacker. But a real quick comment, George was a guy he was different in a lot of ways.

But anyway, we showed up for a meeting one one morning and u George wasn’t there and Bo says, “Where’s George? How come George isn’t here?” And I think Frank said, “Well, he’s sick.” And Bo said, “He’s what? [laughter] Sick? What the hell are you talking about? He’s sick. And then in the next breath, in the next breath, he says, “You know what? I wouldn’t want to play for George. He’s a tough son of a bitch.” [laughter] Oh, okay. How about Mason? Was it Tony Mason? Tony Mason? Me? Me? You’re talking about me? What What kind of coach was What did Mason was offensive line? Yep. Flamboyant to the inth degree. And yeah, like Denny was saying, it’s about me. Oh man, Tony Mason, I mean, he kept things moving. He kept things alive. He kept things vibrant.

I mean, I can remember one day on the field and I can’t remember if it was the Michigan State game our senior year or our junior year, but it started to rain at the beginning of practice and it turned into a thunderstorm and folks are looking around trying to figure out are we going to stay on the field or what’s going to happen? And there was a big stroke of lightning and then a boom of thunder and Tony says to the team, Bubba Bubba Smith, you know, don’t take it out on us. You know, [laughter] when you try to get ready to play a football game. Quiet down, Bubba. But he would just throw out expressions like that. And I mean, obviously here, what, how many years later, decades later, I’m still remembering that. But, Tony Mason was having that kind of effect and he had a definite presence on the football team. Yep, he did. He was something.

Okay, so we’re going to get a film here in a minute. So this 67 season ends and I read somewhere where there was some dump bump language out there in the media. Was there was he was bump catching heat after the 67 year? He was catching heat during the year. Oh, okay. So yeah, he was he was he was Yeah, it was getting hot for coach. It really was. Okay, so the mindset going into I’m going to I’m going to start the film here. Guys, I think we’re ready to we can talk. We can look at film. I got questions. You guys can type in and we’ll go through film as we’re as we’re asking questions. But I’m just going to I just got a couple guys, you know, I got everybody that played hopefully marked at least once and you guys can just give some comments. So Dan Dierdorf is your right tackle, 72, and then Jerry Imsland is your tight end here.

Go ahead, Denny. You go first on playing with Dierdorf and these in Imsland. Well, Jerry had great hands. He had great hands. And you know, Dierdorf was one of the bigger guys that we had, he was a sophomore about 255, I think. And that was, you know, the guy the guy playing next to him, Stan Broadnax, I don’t think Stan was 225 or 230. Maybe. George, you would know. He’s about 225. Yep. Yeah. And then he wound up playing next to a guy by the name of Dick Caldarazzo that was probably 215 220. Yeah. But anyway. Okay. So, Jerry Imsland. You obviously you played you played for Michigan here. You got a block and he had some good hands. So, a lot of straight ahead stuff here. A lot of isolation. That looks like that was one of your favorite plays, huh, Coach Brown? Well, yeah, it was. And I was telling George that we got real fancy there, man.

We shifted from the eye to split backs. Yeah. But yeah, Ron was the lead back on that last play and had a nice block and I think that was Garvie that what that went in there with that with that. You’re right. I’m only going to point that out that you got the great running back and he’s not a you know, like you’re saying, coach, he’s he’s not afraid to get in there and block. Oh, no. He’s a tough kid. Yeah. Yeah. He put the hat on you. Yeah. All right. A little shift here. And how about your you got Mandich and Bob Penksa. Bob Penksa. Okay. So, any any thoughts on Mandich? George, go ahead. What are your thoughts on Mandich? Oh, go ahead, George. You had to defend him. Not really on the outside, but you can I He caught I think he caught about 60 of my passes. Yeah.

I mean, talk about being able to get open and being He just was deceptive. You look at him, you think this big slow guy, but he could run past you, too. And he could catch the rock. Yeah, he was a tough guy, too. And one of our favorite plays with him was we ran an option route with him, and we read we would read the inside backer. Here we go. Is this is the Denny Brown sweep. [laughter] hey coach, let me ask you guys this. When you were in high school, were a lot of people running option like this or is this something that came in the late ’60s option like this? No, we didn’t run any option. This is the old speed option that we ran and we just started running that when we came in to Michigan. So like George said, when when they call option, Denny’s running the ball, right, George pitches. Yeah. You know, Jimmy, you coach this.

I’m I’m reading that outside back. I know you do. You do a good job there, coach. I was just No, I should have pitched it, but you know, I like to run the ball. Yeah, you [laughter] do. All right, here’s double tight end. Little shift. Look at that shift. I George, talk about Broadnax, your right guard here. Oh, Stan, he was one of those intellectuals on the field, but he would crush you if you got in his way.

He just loved the game and he was always trying to improve and even though as we said he was only you know two and a quarter but he just blocked Jim run that back run that I’m sorry George I just want to point something out to these these young guys you see this center here that’s Dave Denzin from Xenia Ohio he wound up being an orthopedic surgeon and when you go back Stan Broadnax wasn’t he like the head doctor for the whole Cincinnati or something. Medical examiner. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. So, we got you got two doctors here side by side. Smart guys. Talk about the talk about the center. Coach Brown Denny. Well, Dave Denzin like I say from Xenia, Ohio. Smart guy. Wound up being just just an outstanding guy. Very, you know, typical lineman. Quiet. God, he was quiet. He hardly said a word. I had an English class with him and he never said anything. Watch this. Yeah. Take that inside route.

Yeah. All right. George, that was your roommate. He was my roommate for four years. Yeah. Ron, I mean, even though he’s a at the time a big back, so to speak, but Ron could he just amazed me. He could run a 4740 in shorts or in full uniform and you figure what? How can you do that? But that’s the kind of strength he had and the kind of speed he had and the size that he had. Just an amazing athlete, an amazing person. Yeah, I think that last thing, George, is that you know, he was I think he was validictorian of his class coming out of high school. George, you can correct me. Mhm. And then he went over to the business school and he was in like the top 10% of the business school. Yep.

And then when he went to play professional football and he got out, he was on Wall Street and he’s he got he got companies and I mean he’s in the New Jersey athletic hall of fame. He’s in the Michigan Hall of Fame. And I mean you just Wow. Yeah. We were very lucky to have him as a teammate. Is Henry Hill. He’s a pretty good player here. Your nose guard. Oh, Henry Hill. Yeah. I think he was a sophomore here in ’68. Yeah. All right. So, let me ask you guys then. Playing this football game, you know, Bo would go over. Okay. We knew Michigan State mattered, Ohio State. Now, how what what kind of emphasis was played on this game? Put on this game being a Michigan football player in 1968 playing Michigan State. Go ahead, George. You start because you did the Flint thing and then I’ll I’ll jump in.

Well, I think that’s what stands out for me and I don’t believe the coaches had to do very much to motivate me because as I said before, just coming out of Flint and going a different route than the typical great and good football players. I’m not great. I can’t say that about myself, but anyway, just that pipeline going to MSU, I just felt this game is one where you’re going to have bragging rights for life and you better get up for it. You better get ready to play ball. And that’s what motivated me for this game, just to get out there and just I couldn’t take a loss. Couldn’t take a loss. Wasn’t in the in the frame at all. Yeah. Well, one one of one of the things I remember specifically about this 68 game was prior to that, it was always just we did special things in practice and you know, we just we may have played the game on Tuesday and Wednesday.

But I remember going into this game, the coaches just kind of it’s it’s just another game, guys. Let’s let’s go out and play ball. And we did. And see this guy up here? Which guy? Right here. I think that’s Brian Healy. Oh yeah. Yeah. He’s a doctor. [laughter] Wow. Yeah. You know guys, I played, you know, I played in the early 80s and, you know, I started two years and there was one team, one game where the opponent actually opened his mouth and started talking junk. Oh yeah. And it was it was never the Buck guys, never the Boiler. It was these guys. Yes. It’s the only team that ever opened their mouth. I mean, what do you I mean, there’s 100,000 people here. I’m worried about my adjustments, my technique, my I’m re I ain’t got time to talk, but that was the only team where guys talked. I just thought that was you know. Well, no. And it’s true.

They I George, did you go to that after the 68 season, a bunch of us all went up to Michigan State and you know, we met a bunch of those guys up there and we all had dates and all that stuff. Were you involved with that? Oh man, you’re testing my memory now for this old dude. Well, what what I remember what I remember about that is a lot of those guys we were recruited and actually went on visits at the same time. And I remember telling my date who I think I was I don’t think I was I was married at the time. I told my wife those guys now are not the same guys they were when we were recruited. Now, I know everybody matures and everybody go, but I mean, these guys were just I mean, they thought their didn’t stink, man. They they sat back and acted like Yeah, it Yeah. Yeah.

Let’s look at some plays real quick cuz I see 12 in. George, one thing I watched I probably watched five, six of your games this year from this team, this 68 team. George, you never let the ball outside the defense, man. And this Ed, you got you had some good outside backers. Here’s 97 more. And then George, you’re the corner down here. Keeping the ball inside the defense. Run support or making a tack. Yeah, making a tackle here. Turn it back inside. That’s right. I never saw the ball get outside of you. I didn’t see it getting thrown over your head. I didn’t realize. I just knew Tom Goss was the athletic director. I played with Tom Goss’s brother. Greg. Greg. Yeah. But he’s he’s Tom Goss is all over this field. 65 here. Just a good old southern guy that Tom Gosh. Yeah, they went down to Tennessee and got him. Yeah.

Anytime anything you guys want to see, there’s some plays that are missed. They they obviously scored there. Anything you guys want to just jump in on? I got to ask this question as we look at some more plays. Okay. So, you know, I was a kid, 1968, a lot of things going on around the country. There was a riot in Detroit. You got a lot of Detroit guys on the team. How did Bump handle did you guys feel was it anything going, you know, was there anything that divi divided your team with the riots going on in Detroit and around the country? Go ahead, George. Speak up. Yeah. Oh, I think you know with Bump’s leadership, Bump was always the person who was going to just try and keep things even kill. And he just told us with our demeanor that, you know, we just are there to represent ourselves, represent the football team, represent the University of Michigan.

And though there was a lot of chaos going and a lot of hatred being spewed, don’t give into that. Just maintain who you are, be well disciplined, and take care of yourself, take care of your family, be there for others, but you don’t have to get involved in the melee. What what I remember, George, is we had a meeting outside inside the big wall that came out of Yo’s Fieldhouse. Remember they had set up a couple benches there where we where we would do leg lifts, you know, remember Fitz did that. But anyway, we called off a practice or two or maybe I forget if how long it was because we had so many Detroit guys and Bump wanted the guys from Detroit to go and be with their families, protect their property, do whatever they had to do. And I remember R. J.

Saying after the riots and everything were over that he actually sat on his front porch and he may have had a weapon or two to pro to protect his house. And Bump was very cognizant of that situation as we were as young guys. And I do remember him calling off a practice or two and you know you Detroit guys or who you guys you guys go take care of your families. Because I do remember that. Wow. Here’s here’s Dan Parks. Big you got had two good inside tackles here. Goss and Parks. You know, one thing I noticed, guys, is you there’s not much rotation going on. You know, now we hear about rotations. These guys didn’t really leave the field. Yeah. I don’t know that they I don’t know that they did that. And Danny Parks was a really good young player. And you know, there’s Cecil Pryor. I think that was Cecil. Yeah. Is that Cecil is Cecil’s right here. Yep. Yeah.

That there’s I got to play I got just I got everybody that played in this game you know circle. So this is talk about your linebacker. You did talk about him and he ended up playing in the NFL. Tom Stincic, right? Yeah, he played for Dallas. Yeah, he’s he would he would light you up big time. He just You guys are running a 61. Look, this was I think it’s a four I think it’s a 4-3 Jimmy is what it is. And these guys are like Yeah. However you want to work it. Yeah. Whatever you whatever you want to call it. But Yeah. Yeah. There’s Tommy throwing his body around. Yeah. Yeah. He would get to the ball. And number 12, he ain’t afraid to come up and tackle this guy right here. Yeah, we know him. We know him. [laughter] George, you did you never did coach though, right, George? I did not. I mean, I love the game so much.

You actually when I was getting my degree from Michigan, you know, from the school of education. I thought I was going to end up going back to Flint teaching and coaching for who knows how long. That’s how I saw my future. I wasn’t thinking about the NFL necessarily. I just knew I loved the game and just wanted to be a part of it at some level. But yeah, thought I was going to go back to Flint and teach and coach. Yeah, you had two good outside backers, Ed Moore, 90 97 and he was not a big guy. Eddie Moore was not a big guy, but he was tough. And then Seymour Seymour was tall, rangy, and tough. Good job there. So yeah, the Michigan State now at this time though, you know, what they had the great teams in ’65 and ‘ 66, right? And you can I mean you can see they got they got big players. They got good players.

You can see this is a Yeah, they they they’ve got they’ve got good players and you know Duffy with his clinics. This guy here is from Hawaii. That’s one of his Hawaiian guys. Oh, a is that a pizza? No. Uhuh. Pisa was a kicker. This young this young guy here was a quarterback coming in and they moved him to running back. I wish I could remember his name. It’s right on the tip of my tongue, but he’s no unfortunately he’s no longer with us. Matter of fact, they did a they did a TV movie about him. He had one of those diseases where you know your your your your body just just goes away. Here’s Hill making another play. Yeah. Okay. So, yeah, coach, yeah, you guys would call it a 4-3, but you got those outside backers close to the line of scrimmage. Yeah. And, well, this has range this punk.

I think they got them got them a little closer to their drops if they were going to drop. Yeah. You know, I really didn’t obviously pay a whole lot of attention to what was going on over there on the other side of the ball and I’m sure Versa Visa, of course, we knew all of our teammates. And is that you in the middle, George? That would be me. Yes. Yeah. Okay. All right. But, anyway, yeah, I think in my mind, I remember this week we treated it like another game. We didn’t do all that stuff where we were, you know, painting our helmets green and, you know, doing doing all that stuff. We just we just decided we were going to get after it, you know. Yeah. Oh. Sometimes with those big games, you get too emotional. It just, you know, wasted energy. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, there’s no question about it. Oh, he’s throwing the ball. Oh, nice throw. Nice throw, Dennis.

I threw more of those than I did the other ones. All right, I want to get Okay, I got a question. So, that was part of the offense. Kind of looks like it might be looking to throw, but you’re just looking to run here. Am I right? Or is that a Is that a run pass option? That was a run pass option, I’m sure. But you notice right away it went to my left hand to keep that to keep that ball away from the defense. So this might have been a terror sweep. That was in our Yeah, I’m sure it was a terror sweep. Okay. So you guys are It’s I think it’s tied right now. Oh, there’s here’s I think this is Gabler. You throw it. I can’t really this Gabler down here. John Gabler. It could be. Yes. Number 18. You throw You throw a beautiful pass here. So you guys score 77 and you throw just a dime here.

You know his brother was a quarterback at Michigan. Gabler. Yeah. Wally Gabler. Wally. Yeah. Wally was the quarterback our freshman year in ’65. Oh, okay. And then I think I don’t think I know he went into Canada and played in Canada for a few years. Yeah. You give this guy a little time and protection, he’ll throw a dime right there for you. Really? Yeah. I seriously I could Howard throws it in the stands. Way to go, Howard. But anyway, [laughter] he was Howard was very flamboyant to say the least. He always managed to miss Monday’s practice somehow. I don’t know how he did that. All right, so let me ask you guys now the you 67 you I just want to get an idea what the calendar year was like. So you play you beat you lose to Ohio. I think you lost Ohio State that year. And yeah, are there any commit what are the what are the commitments in the winter?

Is everything optional? Oh, no. No. So you guys are in 60 in 68 now. You guys have strength training commitments. So some some winter conditioning responsibilities. Oh, sure. Yeah. And we had such great facilities. We used to, remember, George, we had that little band building over there where we did our our conditioning and there was no showers, I think. And yeah, it was let me tell you what, they they didn’t spend any money on facilities, buddy. I’m guarantee you that. Yeah. And Yeah, George, it looks like it looks like the coach is just you’re a you’re a right corner. Hartman is a right safety. Curtis is a left safety and Brian Healy is a left corner. Is that pretty much the way it is? Yeah. Yeah. You guys didn’t flip. Strong side, weak side. It’s left, right, and you got two good safeties that’ll come up and tackle. George, talk about Curtis and Hartman. Well, Hartman, we Hartman’s nickname was stick.

And not because he was just a frail little man either, but he would come up and just knock your lights out. Curtis just so smart and disciplined. I mean, at one point, and he may still be, I haven’t checked the books, but he was the all-time interception leader for Michigan football. But we would tell him, “Hey, nobody wanted to throw on the outside to Brian Healy or to my side.” So, they try and throw down the middle. We just force the quarterback to throw down the middle. And TC would just sit back there and he could see the quarterback’s motion and he would break on the ball. He could just have so many picks and he did. But yeah, Hartman was he had an attitude. [laughter] He played with an attitude and I don’t know if it was because he came from Ann Arbor or and he wanted to have a role to play but yeah, he would knock your lights out too.

I like that secondary. Yeah, he was also a hockey player. He lettered in hockey two two or three times. Yeah. Good point. You know that the car kid who’s a freshman now, that’s Curtis is his grandfather. Yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right, George. You’re now you got two guys deep. I tell you, I’m watching this game. It doesn’t look like they want to punt the football. I watched a lot of your games this year. I don’t see many people really wanting to punt punt the football to Michigan. Is that does number 12 have something to do with that? [laughter] Well, I mean, there were a couple of coaches who basically said, “We’re not going to kick to that guy.” I don’t know why not. I mean, I’m just another player on the field, so give me a chance.

You know, but yeah, there were teams that just said, “Yeah, we’re not going to kick to him.” And, so I didn’t have all the numbers, but I just enjoyed I think I was on the punt team, punt return team, kickoff return team, kickoff team. Just play the game. Hey, hey, Danny, you know, you coached a long time and I did, too. You know, the first formation you put in the first day of practice and the first play you put in is kind of like you’re telling your team, “Hey, this is an important play.” And I see this play, you guys run a hell of a lot of it, you know, this isolation play. And then, you got this guy 48 here. He ain’t afraid to block people. No. Garvie Garvie was a tough tough guy. He was a character, too. But no, the I think the eye formation was the first formation that we put in.

I know when I coached in high school, it was it was the eye formation and we ran the isolation and then we ran the off tackle, get the double team with the fullback kicking out and then we could run play action off of that. But yeah, the eye formation came in really big from USC out on the west coast. That’s where it really came from. Okay. Well, here you are reading it and you’re pitching it. This a good pitch. Reading that in. There we go. See what happens when I pitch the ball, George. [laughter] A true option, I tell you. Yeah. You see a lot of crack blocks. You know, it’s amazing how much chop blocking was going on at that time. Well, yeah. Hey, run that back and show Garvie. Garvie absolutely destroys this Yeah, you’re right. I see that here. Right here. Look. Watch this block here. Come on. Get some. Come on. He picked him up right off his feet.

Did you guys tear away jerseys? George, is Ron is Johnson’s jersey tearing up here? Yeah, they they ripped the out of that jersey. I don’t know why. We probably didn’t have a second jersey because it cost it cost $25. [laughter] I don’t know. I don’t know if I’m looking at Johnny Manziel out here. Look at 22 out here. No, there there no Johnny Manziel in this guy. I Well, that’s that’s good wheels. I like to play. I just I have I always like to play and I like to run the ball. I like to I like to initiate the contact. Oh. RJ’s going to whip one out here. Oh Run. Yeah. You guys tried to get cute here. Yeah. Yeah. I don’t know who called that play. Okay. Let me ask you who who called plays. Well, I think it was a combination of guys up in the press box. Hank Fonde, George Mans.

I think they kind of duplicated that and we had a we had a real sophisticated signal system. Bump used his tie. Really? Is this you? Is this you knocking him out of bouncer? I don’t know. I think it is. Is this you right here? I’m I don’t know. Yeah, I think that’s you there. Okay. So, you think it was a combination? It was kind of like the Harbaugh Schembechler era. You know, he had a what did Jim call it? A collaboration. That was the Harbaugh term. Well, you know, when I was there, the guy in the press box was always Jerry Hanlon and I can remember because I stood pretty close to Bo a lot of the times. I can remember him hollering, “Are you sure, Jerry? God damn it. Are you sure?” You know, and I think the other coaches could you know, add stuff.

Chuck Stobart had Bo’s ear a lot during the game and he was on the sidelines, but it was Jerry Hanlon and Bo 99 times out of 100. And when it comes to our guys, I think it was kind of the same. There was a couple guys in the press box and they would relay it down to Bo to Bump and Bump would do his thing with with me. But Oh, run that back. Take a look at Tom Stincic taking this shiver on this guy. Watch him right here. Bam. Wow. Well, you’re D-line. You know, these Spartans are big. These guys are getting down low. They’re making piles down here, man. You know, because they’re getting knocked out of initially, then they started I think coach made a little adjustment. We got to get lower. Yeah, it could be. Yeah, I mean, we our defense was really really really good.

Yeah, we had I think there was 103,000 I saw I saw guys that this was the biggest game you biggest crowd you played in front of. There was a the place was sold out. 100,000. Yeah. Yeah. We I think 70 75,000 might have been more of the of the attendance when we played down through our senior year and our junior year. Yeah, I don’t know. I think I don’t think that’s a pizza right there. All right. So anyway, get let me get back to the count. Okay. So you guys had you had mandatory when this when right after the house because look when I played we play the ball game and Bo gave us a week off and then it was straight to winter conditioning weight room three days a week running maybe you know three four days a week then spring ball was 20 practices and then you had maybe a week off in the summer and then summer conditioning.

You literally didn’t have more than two weeks off. What what was you what was the calendar for you guys after the Ohio State game? Go ahead, George. For me, I’m running track, so I shift gears and I go from football uniform to a track uniform. And we had, of course, indoor track season, outdoor track season. And of course, the track coaches were saying, “I know you have this football obligation and you got the weightlifting program, but don’t bulk up too much, you know, cuz we still don’t get too tight, George. Don’t get too tight.

We just want you to keep your speed.” So, I mean, I remember even I think it was my senior year also where u during the offseason, I mean, I’m running track and even when the spring game came, we had a track meet on the same day at Ferry Field and I run my events and then I go in and change clothes and I get over to the stadium at halftime and play the second half. So, it was that kind of a situation for me. Yeah, we I can’t honestly remember what the time frame was from the last game until we started, but yeah, we were we were in the wait room and we were doing our agility drills. And we went right on up into to spring ball and I’m not even sure if we had 20 practices. I think we may have been as many practices we wanted. I don’t remember putting a capper on it. I honestly don’t. All right.

So, but anyway, you the winter conditioning part was it was mandatory. Coaches ran the lifting and running. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And then you get into spring ball and then that was what it was. Did you guys have to you had summer conditioning the same way? No. We did what we wanted to do in the summer. There was nothing like when when Bo came in and guys would be there in the summer and we had a Mike Gittleson was there and Jed Hughes was there and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, it changed tremendously. We had a hell of a time getting a strength coach, Jim. I mean, we had to beg, borrow, and steal on that. And we found Mike Gittleson on campus. He was working for his master’s degree, but Oh, no kidding. Is that Is that how Bo found him? Yeah. Well, I’ll tell you what happened.

Paul Schudel and I went out to Nebraska and we wanted to get one of their guys because they were turning condition weight coaches like like crazy. Boyd Epley, I don’t know if you know that name. Oh, yeah. He was the first one. Yeah. So, so, Paul and I went back and, you know, gave our report to the old man and he said, “Well, why would we want to take one of his guys? Let’s hire him.” So, he flies Boyd in and Boyd has no intention of leaving Nebraska. And so, what we wound up doing was getting him like a $15,000, $20,000 raise. And then all of a sudden, in walks Mike Gittleson and Paul and I, Paul Schudel, interviewed him. And you were there when Mike was there. Oh, yeah. Mike Mike had on Levi’s with no belt. He had on a t-shirt and sandals and he and he had a notebook in his hand.

And so we told Bo we wanted him to interview him and then we called Mike Gittleson and said, you know, Bo wants to meet with you and Paul Schudel and I were saying dress up a little bit. You know, [laughter] maybe wear a real pair of shoes or something like that. Well, when he comes in, Paul and I are waiting for him. And he walks in. He looked exactly like he did when [laughter] he interviewed with us. He had sandals, Levi’s, and a t-shirt. And so, we’re, you know, Paul and I are going, “Oh my god.” So, anyway, Bo didn’t hire him. What Bo told him was, “If I like you, I’ll hire you.” So, I think he started without any money. Yeah. I, you know, Mike was great. He was a veteran.

And I know Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo Bo would like that he was a veteran and but yeah he was a great strength coach and there’s such you guys know the strength coach is has such a role in building a unity of the team you know because he’s and he was an innovator I mean he was doing things that people were coming to see him to see what he was doing and you know he had a he had a hell of a long run man I mean he George here’s George making a play coming up yeah. You know, you know what I did as a coach, Coach Brown, you might, you know, I had guys that were, if I had a left-handed kid, I might have do the same thing, George, because sometimes left-handed players are better tackles with their left shoulder. You know what I mean?

So, I would I used to do that put maybe a left-handed kid as my right corner because you don’t want them missing missing tackles. If that makes any sense to you. That’s interesting. That’s interesting. Anyway, they’re putting the drive. They they got big dudes, man. They got you. You can see they’ve recruited. Duffy went out and got some, you know, these are big guys, man. Good running backs. All right. How about game week? So, you play a game on Saturday and did you have a commitment on Sunday? Oh, yeah. We looked at the film as a team and we had a meal and we met I think our senior year. It was out by one of the junior high schools there on Stadium Boulevard. You remember the name of the place? Oh, it’s escaping me now, but I can see it right on the corner at that little triangle. Yeah. Yeah.

We didn’t Jim, when I tell you we didn’t have any facilities, we didn’t have any facilities. Yeah. When you went to when you went to the locker room on game day on Saturday, you had a seat and above the seat you had a nail and that’s what you put your clothes on. And if you think if you think I’m bullshitting you, I’m not. It was like, you got to be kidding me. Seriously. Yeah. Yeah. It was amazing. Here’s C. Here’s Curtis making a tackle. Okay. So, you got you guys would look at film. Would you would start on the Sky Report and Monday you would come in and so you had no you had no days off. It’s seven days a week during the season basically. You know, we obviously we didn’t have you know, Friday night was the night at the hotel and then Saturday night we were getting ready to come back back back in on Sunday.

But yeah, there there was no limitation of hours. There was you know, none of that stuff, you know. Yeah. And you would always have a film of the opponent. Oh, yeah. Yep. Yeah. Always have film. Yeah. I remember when I first started coaching for Bo, if if I went to watch a game prior to our game the next week, we had an actual physical film exchange at that time. Yeah, that’s right. They’d send the gas to do that, wouldn’t we? [laughter] Oh god, I can just stories I can tell you. Oh my god. Got. Hey, what was a what was a Bump Elliott pregame speech like before a game like this? Did he was he what he what would he say? Go ahead. Double the ball here. They’re putting something together and they f What would what was it like Georgia Bump Elliott pregame speech? You know, I don’t remember so much bumps pregame speech.

I remember position coaches speeches who just again just re-emphasize just being disciplined. You play with an attitude. You don’t think about mistakes. You line up for the next play and you give it your all every time you over the ball. But that’s and then we go out and just in going through the u the warm-up drills you by groups it was the same thing. Just pay attention to detail and give it your all. Detail, detail, detail. How about this guy here, Cecil Pryor? Yes, sir. Mr. Prior, Corpus Christi, Texas. Yeah, he was a disruptor, that young man. Yeah, in many respects. One thing I remember about Cecil, too, we were down in Illinois. Illinois decided they were going to punt the ball to us on fourth down. I got the ball. I’m thinking I’m taking it back all the way. And next thing I know, folks are just sort of standing around looking. And I’m thinking, what’s the deal? Why aren’t we celebrating?

Didn’t I take it to the house? Well, no. Cecil knocked this guy out of bounds. Hit him in the back. And [laughter] Cecil wasn’t even in the play, man. But Cecil love to hit people. Oh my goodness. He about He’s about 6’5. Oh yeah. Every bit of that. Yeah. Yeah. And he had a wicked a wicked forearm. He was tough, man. He was tough. Yeah. Hey, look at this. Coach Brown, you everybody talks about the spread offense. Now here’s three and one in 1968. Three receivers here, one guy back here, one back. God, I hope you guys worked against that. George, [laughter] I’m still looking to go deep on my side or Brian’s side and they’re not they’re having none of it. Hey, George, you guys were zone defense predominantly. Predominantly. Yeah, it looks like that’s the kind of, you know, I don’t see you doing a lot of slanting up front.

It’s you know, let’s just let’s just run a base defense and be good at it. That pretty much was the philosophy. Yeah. I think they were a two gap front and you know Jim just just to tell you there was no such thing as too deep. There was no such thing as a strong role or a weak roll. There was no such thing as as what we used to call a strong role where we would have the safety over the top of the corner and the strong safety and we’d drop the backside backer and have the other corner on the hash. You we our passing offense was three deep maybe man coverage but you didn’t have to worry about disguise. You didn’t have to worry about a two deep shell. You didn’t have to worry worry about any of that. It was just this is the way they played it back then. And you know, it evolved and evolved to the better.

It evolved to the better. You know, I’ve been to a many a high school co game and I can’t believe what some of these high school coaches are doing. Golly, it’s they’re very these kids are very well coached and these coaches are on top of stuff. Boy. Yeah. You’ll see. You go to a high school game, you’ll see Woody Hayes straight tea. You’ll see I-backs. You’ll see, you know, all kind. How about Jim Betts? He’s he gets in the game here. Did George, did he come in as a quarterback? That’s He came in where you see him lined up. He was But yeah, he was a quarterback and tried to get back in the quarterback role, but Betts was quite the athlete, too. Yeah, cuz he ended up being a real good defensive player. Yep. Yeah, he did. And you know, he was he was a hell of a quarterback, I’m telling you.

Matter of fact, I Jim Jim and his wife and Dana and I we got together about three weeks ago and Jim and I talk a lot. And yeah, he could have been the starting quarterback at Michigan in a heartbeat. In a frigin heartbeat. And he was such a talented talented guy and a team guy. I mean, he was a running back, he was a wide receiver, he was a backup quarterback for Moorhead. He went in against Iowa and just just rock them socked him down there. I mean, here’s this guy. He’s 6’5. He’s 220 pounds. He can run and he’s tougher than and he ws winds up playing safety and had a chance to go to the NFL and had an accident when he was a student teaching and just Yep. That was it. Yep.

And that I mean I see Jimmy probably every time I go back to Ann Arbor and you know he would like you said then he was student teaching and he was in the pool and it was the last day of student teaching and the kids were saying Mr. Betts, Mr. Betts, you know, we’re going to throw you in the pool. And they so they pick him up and they’re going to throw him into the pool just as a celebration. And one of the kids grabbed onto his whistle was around his neck on that elastic cinch. And when they threw him into the water, they let the cinch go, let the whistle go, hit him in the eye, and took it and just affected his vision. So when he reported to camp for the Jets, you know, he was just not the full player that he was known to be. And it was over at that point. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So, who Go ahead.

Go ahead. No, no, go ahead. I was just gonna ask you I was just gonna ask you, George, when you came in on Monday, someone’s going to stand up in front of the defense and lead. Who’s Who’s the guy that’s leading the defense? What coach? Who was the coach? I mean, James was the one who were just the impact coach and he was the one who was talking about what the defense had done or did not do. The man was so astute when it comes to football as obviously his career would tell you that as he went on up to Washington and did a whole bunch of damage out there. Yeah. But yeah, just a mastermind at the game of college football. But I remember him on scouting reports. He would say, “Well, this guy here, I’ll use your name. Well, this George Hoey, he’s a running back and he’s got a bad right leg. Let’s make sure we don’t tackle that leg now.

[laughter] No kidding. All right. So, but as far as like George, when you guys came to the sideline, you know, you know, because I, you know, I had McCartney, he’s the defensive coordinator. Moeller, he’s the defensive coordinator, you know what I mean? It’s like there’s one guy that is like, you know, taking charge and I guess it was Don James then, huh? He was a take charge guy. I mean, everybody knew that he was just the astute one and he was going to tell you just the ins and outs and the small details that were going to help make a difference. Okay, here’s Goss making a play. 65 uses his hands well. A lot of chop blocking back then. Yeah, see him come off there and make that play. Yeah, nice nice job, Tony. Nice job. Well, it’s I’m I’m glad I’m I’m seeing this defensive film. I’m I’m really impressed with it. What how our guys are playing. Oh, smart.

I see guys in, you know, you keep the ball inside the defense, you contain the quarterback, no big plays. That’s, you know, that’s how we were coached. Yeah. People keeping their shoulders square, moving their feet. Yeah, that’s good football. Is that 70 in the game now? Is that Mart? I don’t think it’s Marty Huff. I think that’s 90. I think that’s I think that’s Yeah, you guys didn’t You did not rotate many guys at all, man. No. Nope. Here’s Ed Moore making another play. And you know what? Eddie was Eddie was Eddie was not a big guy. I bet I don’t think he weighed 210bs. I would be I would be surprised. I was going to put him at 197, but there you go. There you go. He was not a big guy. You can’t block like this now in college football. Watch how they chop try to chop them. You cannot block like this anymore. It’s illegal. But he uses his hands. Yeah. Yeah.

I anyway, yeah, good good outside backer play. You guys are up. Get Let’s let coach Let’s let Denny run a little bit. Oh, did you throw an interception, Dennis? Holy I know you don’t want to see it, coach, but we’ll just a little got to take the good with the bad. Yeah. Anyway, sudden change. Here’s IB from the Spartans. Yeah. Let’s hope we don’t get a score here. Let’s hope this quarterback was pretty athletic, too. Did you Did you know any guys on that team, Denny? Well, yeah. Yeah. A lot several of the guys because you know at this time we’re seniors and we were a lot of us were recruited and took recruiting trips and even you know even were at Michigan and Michigan State together because you know back then you could take as many trips as you wanted to. Yeah. Yeah.

Did you know some guys George from high school or Flint or Yeah, there were only a couple from Flint but not a whole lot otherwise. When I looked at Michigan State, I just I just glossed over, you know, [laughter] just wanted to take him out. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It’s a good sack. I think that’s the number 11. Is that Charlie Wedemeyer? He’s out of Hawaii. Number 11. Yeah, I know. Duffy went there because I worked with I worked with Apisa’s brother, the one that was the running back there. I know they had a little pipeline into Hawaii there. Hawaii. Hawaii and Texas. You know, Duffy had all of those those clinics that he used to run and he met a lot of high school coaches and recruited their kids. Oh, I completed one. Yeah. Hey, Mandich didn’t drop too many balls, huh, Danny? No. No, if you got it if you got it around Jim, he was going to catch it.

He I think that was that option route that we were running. Yeah, he’s on that Super Bowl team, right? Wasn’t he Yeah, he was on that Super Bowl team. You know, I Jim didn’t have wheels. He wasn’t a fast runner. No, you he could shake and bake and get open and could catch them. He had great hands. His nickname was puppy man. [laughter] Is there a story behind that? Yeah. He was Oh yeah. He was stopped at the light at Packard and State Street and the light turned green and he was petting a dog and George Mans just happened to be walking across the street and George yelled at him and said, “God damn it, what are you doing?” and he walked over and he was petting this dog. So, George nicknamed him puppy man. Oh, okay. Oh, god. Hey, let me What would you guys say?

And you know that you had a you had a culture on this football team of guys that really fought and cared for each other. Go ahead, George. I think that’s safe to say. Yeah. I mean, the camaraderie just had no boundaries. And again, whether you’re on offense, whether you’re on defense, whether you’re black, whether you’re white, whether you’re short, whether you’re tall, whether you’re skinny, we just melded just like a group. And I think we all respected one another. We supported one another. That’s that was just good harmony on that team. Yeah, this is a really good play at the point of attack here. Yeah, you got two guys playing good technique here, coach. You know, you can see early on these guys were standing up getting knocked out, but they’re playing low. Goss and Prior, taking on the blocks, playing low. Yep. No movement, right? Nice job. Nice job there. Yep. Yeah. Yeah.

We I think we were a team that wanted to win and I think collectively we had a lot of respect for guys on our respective offenses or defenses and for the other guys on the defense and defense for the offense and you know it was it was we wanted to win man. We wanted to win and we want Oh, look out. Little extracurricular there. Yeah, I think they get a penalty there. Seymour, be careful. But, anyway, yeah, they they call that on them. They’re moving it back. Yeah. Good, good, good. I just I get a big kick out of looking at the stances and I get a big kick out of some of the things I see. Obviously, the chop blocks and that sort of thing and guys having to use their hands to keep them off their legs and All right.

So Denny and George like when you guys were freshman did so you basically what I’m getting is that for the most part the old guys were kind of respectful toward the young guys when you guys were freshman and when you were a senior there was because let me tell you there’s there’s a few guys that I played with that weren’t overly friendly to freshman. Oh we had we had those guys too. I mean, yeah, the guy that was my nemesis was a guy by the name of Sygar. He was a rotten he took a cheap shot on me every chance he got a every chance he got. And years later when I was on that M Club board, I met his brother and I asked him if if that was his his brother and he said, “Yeah.” I said, “He was a cheap shter.” He goes, “Yep. Always was. Always was.” That was his brother. Said, “Always was.” He was a cheap shot guy.

Oh, yeah. I mean, I’d be walking out to practice and we’d be getting ready to do RNS, you know, or our warm-up and he’d come up behind me and he would smack me up beside the head or he’d push me, try to knock me down. Oh, he was Yeah. I don’t know why. I don’t know why. I got to point this guy out because he hasn’t really played. 94 is Miklos. Jerry Miklos. Yeah. Yeah. Mick close. His nickname was the fox. [laughter] All right. So, at at this time in college football though, you could rotate any anytime, anybody. There were no there’s no substitution rules like maybe when you guys were freshman, right? No, I don’t think there were substitution rules even back then. Okay. But, you know, Fox he I think he played a lot of football during the course of the year. He wound up going to a couple of camps in the NFL and I just saw him like two years ago.

He lives in the Adrian area here or used to but yeah, his nickname was the Fox and he was a big strong guy. You’re trying to run some quarterback roll out here. Did all freshman have to live at South Quad then for one year, two years? How was that at under bump? I think that was a scholarship freshman. Yeah. But even players who were on the team who were walk-ons, some of them was live in West Quad and that made up sort of a compliment. It was South Quad, West Quad, right? I was in I was in fourth floor. Allen-Rumsey. John Reynolds and I were over with Jimmy Berline and Dennis Sirosky over at West Quad. You know, you know, guys, I talked to a friend that is new guys that were coaching back at this time. You know, these assistant coaches were the Did these guys have to have other jobs outside of being assistant football coaches?

Because that kind of the narrative I got. What do you What do you do you remember any of those guys having to have other jobs because really, you know, coaches were paid like a high school coach? Do you know? I was never I was I was never aware of that, but that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Yeah, maybe it was the early 60s. My my friend told me in the early 60s that’s kind of, you know, these guys they had to have other jobs. They could you couldn’t make a living being an assistant football coach at that time. Well, I know Dennis Fitzgerald he had five or six kids and he wasn’t making $10,000 a year.

And when I went back and had a chance to interview at Dartmouth, George Mans told me, “Don’t accept a job if they offer it to you until you come back and talk to me.” So I took the job and I came back and I told George and he was kind of semi-pissed and he said, “Well, what are they going to pay you?” And my starting salary at at Dartmouth as a freshman coach was like I think 135 or something. I was making more money than George. Hey Danny, you were telling me a story about Holloway where he would bring the guys in at the golf course before the game or before how how did what was that story again? Well, Bob Holloway was a very very emotional guy, very much a Michigan guy.

And Saturday mornings he would take the defense, maybe just the forcing unit or maybe just the down guys, and they would take a walk and he would get them out and he would talk to them about the game. He would give them some historical stuff because he played there and those guys used to talk about some of the talks that Bob Holloway used to give them and how much it meant to them. So, he would do that every home game and he may have done it on the away games, but I wasn’t made aware of that. But, it was the golf course thing. Yeah, we stayed at the golf course and we had those plush surroundings and [laughter] and Oh, I’m telling you what a joke. Hey, how many how many Denny you were telling me the travel squad was like 40 guys. Yeah, that’s Here’s Anyway, here’s Seymour again. Now, did Seymour play in the NFL? If he did, I’m not aware of it.

Okay. He’s made some Anyway, what was the So the travel squad was like 40 guys, 44 guys. Do you remember? Yeah, it was like I know the golf course 39 guys. They would sleep at the golf course on Friday night. Wow. Yeah. Think about it. Yeah. There’s there’s just, you know, everything everything was based on Fritz Crisler. That’s the way Fritz did it. That’s the way Bennie did it. Bennie passed it on to Bump and that’s the way Bump was going to do it. And I’m they they didn’t spend any money. Can tell you I went to him one time and he said, “Do you realize how many people would like to like to work here?” And I told him I said, “Yeah, until they found out how much you were going to pay him.” But they didn’t pay him. It was it was all about the University of Michigan and the prestige of that block.

Bennie Oosterbaan retired from Michigan because he refused to recruit. He said, “If they don’t want to come to Michigan, then I don’t want them.” They fumble the ball here. Big big turnover. No kidding. So that’s Yeah, I can understand that they you know it’s coach for the Michigan hat and the prestige and pay your crumbs. Yeah. Yeah. But you know, don’t get me wrong, Canham turned out to be a really really generous nice guy. I got to know him, you know, when I worked there and, you know, during several other things, but he did things that nobody knew about, helping people in the community and other but he still didn’t pay you. I mean, he Yeah, he just, you know, you’re working at Michigan, Brown, you think you’re lucky stars. Hey, George, look at this. This is all coaching, right? This is to Johnson [laughter] here. A little pitch out. He just makes the guy miss. Oops. Good downfield block. Got the sideline, brother.

So, he was your he was your f you’re you’re you’re a one-man captain and was it voted by the players or the coaches? You guys remember? Wow. How do we do that? Remember, we voted at the end of spring. We voted at the end of spring football and Mandich was the last guy to be the single captain and Bo said we aren’t picking the captain after spring football and we aren’t having one captain. We’re going to have at least two. So then it to me it got watered down. But you know when Bo came in there were some things that he did that were not very welcomed by some of the former players. But when he started winning that all kind of went away. Obviously winning winning changes a lot of things. But anyway he did it his way. It worked. Everybody loves him. I love him.

I just came across a letter that I wrote to him after my wife passed away and what he did for us. And yeah, he yeah, he’d rip your ass one minute and then he’d be hugging you the next. Hey, I didn’t cut I think I hit all the linemen except for Caldarazzo. It’s Caldarazzo, right? Yeah. Big Caldarazzo. Okay. He’s he’s not a real tall guy, but he’s blocking guys. He’s he’s he’s leading out here on this little boot pass. What about him, Denny? Well, Chicago Catholic League tough as hell. You know, he was he lined up next to Dierdorf, I think our senior year for the most of the time, and it looked like kind of mutton, you know. He wasn’t very big. Maybe he may have been 225. He may have been 225, but tough tougher and Could he can’t you can’t play big time Division I football in a defensive line, offensive line position and not be tough? You can’t. That’s right.

I believe this is Moorhead the holder. He’s your backup, Denny. Yes, he was. Great kid. He end up, you know, having a good career. And then Killian. I think this is Killian the kicker, right? Timmy Killian out of Lincoln Park High School. Any any thoughts on those guys, George? Not for me. I mean, when I think of Moorhead, I think just solid guy with a good arm, good knowledge of the game. Killian, hey, I’ll do what you asked me to do. But you look at the style of kicking back in those days and it’s straight ahead and you don’t see the soccer style kicker coming in until later. But he was true to the dime. He could get it done for you. Yeah. You could always count on him. Again, I’m just looking at technique here. You got Henry Hill. Look how low he is there, coach. In his stance. Yeah. Yeah. He looks like he’s on the goal line there, doesn’t he?

It’s like guys are getting tired of getting run, you know, getting knocked out. Yeah. And there’s some good there’s some that’s a play there. Jamming it all up. Anyway, you guys are up. Close game. Mandich is going to grab one here in a minute, I think. Are we in the fourth quarter yet? Yeah, Danny. I Some of these plays are cut out though, man. A lot of the touchdowns are cut out. Oh, so I don’t know if it’s there, but Oh, yeah. I think you Well, we’ll see. Yeah. Yeah, Mandich. Mandich made a hell of a hell of a catch that put us ahead. And how about the cho How about the chowo guys? You had a good training table. [laughter] You know, in those days, you had a meal. Okay. Whether it was good, bad, or indifferent, you were happy to have a meal.

I mean, I’m still talking to one of my other roommates, Marty Washington, and we talked about locker rooms and we talked about the food and if we had training table meal, then that meant you didn’t have to provide any kind of meal at your apartment. So, you take it. [laughter] Oh, it’s amazing. I don’t know. When’s the last time, George, you went to Ann Arbor’s parking lot? You know, when we were there, you had beat up You know, junkers, man. Guys, you see the Do you see the tow truck there every now and then? You go there now, man. There’s Escalades. You got all kinds of big rides now. It’s a different world, man. That’s that nil money, brother. That’s right. There you go. Anyway, here’s Goss making another play with Hoey. What’s George doing here? Coming up tackling. Goss ran him down. Thank you, Tom. Tom Stincic and it’s Hartman, right? 26. Yeah, stick Hartman.

Yeah, these guys ain’t afraid to come up and tackle. Great job. Hey, so George, you had a couple years with Don James and when you saw his success, you were not surprised by that? No, not at all. I mean, he had I want to say charisma, but that doesn’t really fit Don James. But he’s just a scholar of the game, and he just passed that on. I think when he was identifying as a head coach, assistant coaches who would come in and be with him, be a part of his program, he was going to find someone who was of that same ilk. And that’s, I think, what led to his future successes. But yeah, I yeah, like I said, I don’t think there’s any other one coach who had that kind of impact on me and what would be my career, my future in football. I pointed back to Don James. Yeah. Yeah.

He was he was very much a scholar of the game, particularly defense. I know when when he became a head coach out at Washington, he basically was the special teams coach and but he looked at the offensive film and he looked at the defensive film and those guys said that on Sunday night he would be in his office for hours looking at film all by himself. And they had you know the utmost respect for him and you know we played him in the in the super in the super in the in the Rose Bowl a couple of times. Yeah, I lost to him two years in a row. We went down there in 84 and lost and then they came to Ann Arbor in or no 83 went out there and lost and then 84 they came and beat us. But look look at how they were you could do this back then guys you could just be a receiver and just chop a guy.

Yeah. A little little crack back is going to hurt somebody. I’m glad, you know, some of these rules I’m glad I know a lot of people, you know, these, you know, they they they don’t care about the players so much, but I’m glad some of those rules are enforced now. You can’t do that, right? Hey, did you have any guys that played two ways on this team? No. All one-way players? Yeah, I can’t remember. I think so. Yeah. Yeah. I can’t remember. I you I would say no. We didn’t have anybody that went both ways. Looks like we’re missing a lot of field goals here, people. Yeah. There. Yeah. So, we’re in the fourth quarter. You guys both have M rings. You bet. Yeah. George, you got an M ring, right? Yep. You betcha. What does that what does that mean to you, George? Oh, man. I mean, it’s I remember first getting it and I just salivated over it.

I mean, that was [laughter] like the culmination. That was the sort of the phoenix. It’s you get that and you just look at it, you stare at it, and just sort of polish it and shine it and make sure it’s going to just reflect everything that you put into getting it. That’s Yeah, that’s special. That’s special. And when I see sometimes now some players I mean I didn’t misplace mine but to know that even if someone were to misplace it, lose it or have it stolen or whatever the case may be that it’s possible to have it duplicated and still get to the players so that you can treasure it, you know, forever and it won’t be the same, but it’ll be that Mr. Stands for a lot. Danny, how about your M ring? What’s it mean? Well, that’s that’s to me it’s history. That’s something that when you are given that, it sets you apart.

And I’ll be honest with you, I didn’t start wearing mine till about 6 months ago. True story. I didn’t want to mess it up. I didn’t want to I didn’t want to ruin it or anything. And here I am, 79 years old almost. I started wearing it about seriously six, seven months ago. And it looks it was in my jewelry box and I had a bag over it and it looks exactly like it did when they gave it to us. That block M is still out there and it’s that gold is shining and I wear it only when we have a special occasion. But yeah, it to me it’s just you know if you see somebody out that’s got an M ring on. Hey, that’s special man. You earned that. You know, you earned that. And I only have one rub. I only have one rub, and that’s we had a letter award system that was archaic.

And we had guys that busted their ass on scout team. We had guys that were at every practice and gave their guts for it and everything. And they got an M ring if they stayed for four years. But they they didn’t if they didn’t letter, they didn’t get a letter jacket. And that’s one of the things that Bo changed, which was a good thing because the scout team guys were going to be rewarded. And I believe they should be. Yeah. But, you know, again, as a former player, you got guys walking around there with with with with four stripes or whatever. I mean, you know, four years and all that’s and that bothers me. Even though their contribution was significant to get everybody ready to play, and I’m sincere when I say that, but yeah, you I don’t I don’t even know what you had to do to let her at Michigan to be honest with you, but supposedly it was a minute thing.

You had to play so many minutes. And you know I found I my sophomore year I tried everything I could to get on the field. I was the upback on the punt team. I held for extra point and field goals. I would have done anything. And evidently I didn’t get enough minutes. So I was bitter. I was bitter. But I’m I’m not that bitter old man anymore. Jim. I’m And you know you know what it is for me guys? I only break it out if there’s something in my life that is maybe a presentation or something or something I got to do. It’s kind of like Superman putting his cape on. I gotcha. You know what I mean? You guys You guys totally understand that the you know what goes into getting that M ring. So yeah, I don’t wear it all the time, but I when I break that thing out, boy, there’s something that, you know, I need some backup. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, it is just so special when I wear it. And I just All right, look at it. Hang on, coach. We got to We got to We got to tune in for a second. I think this is Mandich coming across. And I don’t think they I think it’s cut out. No, we got you throwing a dime here, man. Yeah, there it is. Oh, yeah. Well, did Bump one of He would looks like the quarterbacks he recruited he’s not recruiting guys that can’t run. Am I right? Well, maybe. Yeah. I don’t know. I mean, Timberlake wasn’t a guy that did a lot of running. Wally Gabler wasn’t a guy that did a lot of running, but the g the game progressed, you know, beyond those guys. As you can see with the speed option and that sort of thing. And yeah, there’s the puppy man coming across. Yeah, it was pretty typical find mandich and throwing the ball. [laughter] That was a good throw.

You avoid avoid the rush and almost had a pretty loud in there. Oh yeah. [laughter] Hey, they didn’t have coming out of the tunnel. They didn’t have the M Club banner. Did they have it at that time or No. No. Nope. Yeah. That came out years later. Yeah. And you know who you know who did that? Al Renfrew’s wife, Marge. Oh, the banner that we hit the banner. Yeah, she did the banner. Yeah. I don’t think there’s a lot of people that know that. The only reason I know it is because I know the daughter Judy. Anyway, you guys are up. We’re in the fourth quarter. You’re trying to get him stopped. I think that touch that touchdown to Mandich that may have been the last score. Yeah, I can’t recall. I know. We had a hell of a time in the locker room after that. It was a loud loud locker room. Okay.

So, you guys I mean you guys got a hell of a team. You’re you’re you’re you’re eight and one going into the Buckeyes, right? Oh god. Yeah. Yeah. You’re I mean you are playing for the Big Ten Championship. Yeah. And hey Jim, we had a touchdown called back in that game in the first half. Yeah. I looked at the film, man. You guys played them real close early on and then that second half the bottom fell out and I don’t even know why. Yeah. You make a good point. I don’t either, but it did. You’re so right about that. Your defense is hanging on here. Goss making a play. Yeah. You know, Woody, Woody was running straight T. Everybody else in the Big Ten. I again, I looked at a lot of teams, you know, a lot of guys are running this stuff and, you know, receivers. And Woody’s running straight T still. [laughter] You know what I mean? Did he? Yeah. Yeah.

He was running the old 20 series back then. Yeah, he’s running straight T. Everybody else is trying to reinvent the wheel and Woody’s running you know, straight T. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, his his philosophy is if you throw it, it’s not good. Yeah. Anyway, you’re trying to run the clock. We’ll get we got a couple more plays, a couple more minutes. You’re pushing them out of here. This is Mandich. This is left side. That was our That was RJ. He was running off tackle there. Yeah, I think we’re getting some movement at the point of attack. I think we got some Spartans kind of standing up. Yeah, I don’t know what they were doing. That one five technique I think out here. He just stood up and said, “punish me.” but anyway, yeah, a few more and we’ll get through this thing. I forgot all about that fancy shifting that we did, George.

[laughter] Well, you know, yeah, it’s like, okay, you know, coach, what is what does this mean? This means one thing. Michigan runs this plays from I-backs and then they do this and now obviously maybe it does, you know, they do something else. Yeah. No, you still you still got your lead back stuff. You can see Garvie hitting that up in there. But you also run it, you know, you also run it with him leading, too, so it’s not predictable. Yeah. Yeah. And then this guy. Yep. That’s what he does. Run the clock out. So you guys you guys have a memory of the locker room after the game, huh? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Here’s another block by 40. Look at them. 48, Garvie Craw. Yeah. He knocked him back a little bit there. Did Killian make this one? Yes, he did. Yeah. Yay, Timmy. Timmy’s no longer with us. I’m sorry.

Denny, let me ask you because you know I don’t you know better than I do. I don’t think Bo wanted to give a scholarship to a kicker until later on. Was Killian Would Would Bump give a scholarship to a kicker? Yeah, Timmy also was a linebacker. Okay. Yeah, he wasn’t just a kicker. I say Timmy. Tim. Tim was a linebacker and a kicker and he used to, you know, that square toe that he used to use. I’m trying to remember who the first soccer style kicker that Bo brought in, but usually he would bring them in and they’d have to earn it. We didn’t necessarily recruit a kicker and give him a grant. Okay. I think this is Seymour picking this off. Is this Seymour or Brian Healy? I think it’s Seymour. Okay. So, yep.

You got He would have been on He would have been on scholarship and you know, because I think Bo I think Ali Haji-Sheikh might have been the first one Bo gave a scholarship. There you go. There you go. You could be right. Played with him and Don Bracken was a punter. Oh yeah, boy. That was a kicking game you had there, boy. Yeah, cuz you know it all started with that 79 game where Bo had two punts blocked. I think that’s what I heard. That’s the story I heard. Huh. You know that then he said, “I got to get you know, I got to work on this.” And then after that, Bo coached the punt team when I was playing. Bo was like that was we started we did our little warm-up and then man, we were Bo was coaching the punt team. Yeah. He used to walk around with that yard stick. Yeah. Yeah. That was his thing, man.

And they they’D-line up and he’d walk over and make sure they had the splits. If they didn’t, he’d hit him on the ass with that yard stick. And I was coaching the punters at that time. John Anderson was the punter. And Well, there you go. Had a great win. And what’s Ann Arbor like? What’s Ann Arbor like after a Michigan victory in 1968 against the Spartans? Oh man. I mean, it’s like being in New Orleans in February. [laughter] It’s Yeah, it’s it’s a blast. Yeah. Good time. All right. So, Okay. So, you guys, Coach Brown, I talked about you, the influence, you know, you were you were coaching at Michigan for many years, and then you go to coach, you go with Don Nehlen out to West Virginia, and you coached a guy named Rich Rodriguez. You want to talk about that for a second? Well, yeah.

It would only be a second, but anyway, yeah, Rich Rod was a safety and he was Hey, Rich was a very, very quiet guy. I remember specifically in spring ball, I said to the secondary coach, “Does he know the checks?” Because I’ve never heard him say anything. And I can’t Bill I can’t remember Bill’s last name, unfortunately. And Billy said, “Yeah, he knows the checks.” Yeah. Yeah, he knows it. So anyway, we had to do a spring evaluation and the last thing on the evaluation we had was would you bring him back in the fall? And so I wrote on there, yes, absolutely bring it back in the fall. So when Rich got that job at Michigan, I sent that evaluation to him. I said, read this to your coaches. [laughter] But yeah, he started out in that little small school there in West Virginia and developed that offense and really worked.

He loves football and but I couldn’t get over the change that I saw and remember from the time that we coached him to when I saw him as the coach at Michigan. He was he was unrecognizable. I mean just where did this guy come from, you know? Hey George, so you were at Michigan for many years and then you go out with you go out to Colorado with Coach Mack brought you out there. Is that is that how you ended up out there? But I got to say this, you know, I was I was at Michigan five years and you’re around a lot of great great coaches that went on. I mean, Lloyd was an assistant. He did great things. Coach Mo was an assistant. I had one year with Coach Mack and when people ask me, I say, “Coach Mack,” it was he was a brilliant leader.

And I could, you know, someone says, “Okay, you throw some guy out to some school that ain’t never won, who’s going to build it?” Bill McCartney would have been a guy that I would have said, you know, that’s a guy that can do it. Talk about your real quick some of the things you did after at Michigan after Michigan if you want or Colorado or coach Mack. Well, I mean, when I graduated Michigan and went to the league, I mean, I was there for six years and I think because of a lot of the things that I experienced in the NFL, I just I felt as if I wanted to come back. And as I said before, I thought I when I was in Michigan, when I was getting my degree, that I was going to, you know, teach and coach in Flint.

And when I got out of the league, I just thought, you know, is there a way that I can give back, you know, to Michigan athletics? And Jim Betts at the time was running the he started up an academic support program. And Jim and I stayed in touch. I was in the undergraduate admissions office and I was talking to all the recruits coming to Michigan about getting in through the front door and met with Jim one day and Jim said, “You know, George, I think I need to get out of here, man. I need to make some money. You know, they’re not paying me. So, I need to I want to go into business.” And I said, “You know what?

I’d be interested in doing some work with the student athletes.” And he says, “Well, why don’t I set up a meeting with Don Canham, Schembechler, you and me.” And you know, 3 days later, the meeting comes along and Canham was my track coach of course too while I was at Michigan. So I knew him. And so we had the meeting and we ended up shaking hands and I’m walking out the door and Canham looks at me and he says, “Hey, who?” And I said, “Yeah, coach.” He says, “you got the job, but don’t screw it up.” That’s the last thing he said. So, I mean, I went in and ran the academic support program, built it up, and I think one of the things it was primarily for football and men’s basketball initially, and I just grew it, and I just because I mean, the track coaches, gymnastics coaches.

I mean, I knew all these folks, and I thought, you can’t just have an academic support program just for football and basketball, men’s basketball. So, I opened it up and just built it up and just made it one that was going to support all student athletes and all sports. And you know did that did some compliance work too. We had an investigation into the baseball program and I had to sort of orchestrate that through the Big Ten and the NCAA and it got to a point where my welcome was it didn’t seem to be appreciated as much as I had hoped or wanted it to and opportunity came to go to Colorado and Mack was out there coach Mack and I think when I talked to Bill Marolt the athletic director he just said hey come on out I got some folks do a vouching for you.

I understand you bring a lot of good things and we want them here and I go out and I work in athletics and run the academic support program for Colorado for six years and then I jump into student affairs and instead of just serving student athletes, I’m serving the whole student population. So that brought me some really good feelings and some gratitude. I retired from student affairs out to Colorado in 2018 and still call it my home. So, I’m out here. Yep. Well, you know what? What Wood what Woody used to say to Coach Mo? We have an obligation to pay it forward. And Coach Mo used to say that to us. You got to pay it forward. Hey, look. You, Danny, you I know people want to know what was it like working and coaching under Schembechler. Best boss I ever had. The gym. And I’ll tell you why. If he told you to do something, he never put a date on it.

He would always tell you, “Just have it ready when I want it.” And he never interfered. He gave you a task or you knew what your task was. That used to drive Don Nehlen crazy. He Don spent more time in my office than he did in his own because he could not get used to that mentality because you know he had been a head coach at Bowling Green for years, the youngest one in NCAA history at 28 and I remember him coming to spring ball. But anyway, make a long story short, he was just the best. I can’t tell you anything else. I mean I never had anybody like him. I never had anybody that I mean he just he had no he had no nobody that could match him. Nobody. He was he was the absolute best. And you know he reamemed me out on a number of occasions but he did it for my own good and because I probably screwed up.

But anyway, I just can’t say enough good things about him and his wife Millie. And yeah, best boss I ever had. You decided you decided who played out your position group. Is that how it was with all the position coaches? They decided who played, not not the head coach. That’s correct. Yeah. I did the same thing when I became a high school head football coach. I’m like, that’s what the old man did. You coach them all week. I’m not going to decide. You decide. You’re going to lose authority. George, you answered to Canham, but you obviously Schembechler was in the mix. What was your experience working for him? Well, I mean, Bo and I had conversations about academic support, counseling, and he says, “You know, I did that at Miami.” And I said, “No, I didn’t. [laughter] Are you trying to tell me something here?

But the conversations that we would have about about the ball players, I mean, it was all very candid and it was straightforward to the point where, hey, if something wasn’t working right and Bo needed to sort of intercede or interject, he would do it. And it was all, hey, Hoey, you still can do this and, you still can do that. I know what I can do.

But I would have some players coming to me and Bo just ripped me and I didn’t I didn’t know I didn’t get a word in Ed edgewise and could you help me think of something to go back to him and tell him and I would say okay gather your thoughts you know B’s going to be B and he’s going to say what he’s going to say but if you want to get a word that you want to convey to him why don’t you think about it this way and you just I give some kind of approach like that but Bo was like Denny saying just genuine. What you see is what you get. And he was straightforward. No matter if it was about social issues, about relationships, or you name it, he was going to give it to you straight and you could take it to the bank. Yeah. I remember my freshman year, we’re playing Notre Dame. They’re number one in the country.

We had just lost to Wisconsin. We were the number one team the week before. Anyway, he’s fired up and we’re playing Notre Dame and we’re not moving the ball very well and he’s yelling at our offensive line, “God, I’m going to fire you. They’ve been a block. I’m firing you.” Coach Brown, how many times were you fired? [laughter] I was never fired, but I was there when he fired Jerry Hanlon about 50 times. That’s what I mean. [laughter] And you know, you know how Jerry Jerry would penalize him because Jerry did the offensive practice schedule and Jerry would hold that offensive practice schedule to the very very last minute and he might not even get it out to Bo until Bo got Bo got out on the field for practice. Yeah, Jerry would get back at it, but he Yeah, he never really fired me. Not not really. He never fired me, but he fired Jerry Hanlon on a regular basis.

That was that was the running joke. All right, I got one more. I want What goes through your mind? Can you guys see that? Good. Can you see that picture? Y Denny, I’m gonna let you go first. What goes through your mind when you see your teammates? Well, it’s a great group and I have that picture in our bunk room here. And I see it all the time when the kids when the when the grandkids come and everything and I just I look at I look at it and I just think about, you know, what we did, what we went through and the great people, the relationships that I still have with a number of them. I look at it also and see so many of them are no longer with us. And that ha that doesn’t haunt me, but it just makes you realize that you know it’s it’s fleeting. It’s it’s a fleeting thing.

But the guy as I’m looking at RJ, those three guys in the in the middle, they don’t get any better than those three. Yeah. No better. Yeah. George, what are your thoughts when you see your teammates? And the [laughter] phrase that comes to mind for me is there’s so many unsung heroes in there. I mean we talked about what it means to be a freshman football player back in the day and sort of to evolve and you go through to your senior class. But there are so many of those teammates that not necessarily made sacrifices but I mean they gave their blood and guts every day just like the rest of us. And even though they may have never started, may have never gotten x number of minutes, you know, to qualify for a letter or anything like that, they still gave.

And I just when I look at that picture, I just I mean go down the rows and I know every one of them, there’s always a relationship or a memory that I have about each one of them. And I just think, yeah, there are a lot of unsung heroes in there. And just was fortunate to be a part of that group. Hey guys, we’re going to wrap it up here. Denny, I’m gonna let you go first because we’re going to close it up and just get let you give any last comment, any last thought. Michigan football 1968. Whatever the heck you want to finish up on. This is my last comment. I’m going to finish up strong here, Jim. Go ahead. And you as long as you want, man. After the 68 game, I wrote a couple of notes and it was in the and I completely forgot about it. So, this is strictly this is strictly off of what was in my book.

And here here’s what I said. All right. Last I put 68 season at home. We won the Michigan State game. These I hate Michigan State. [laughter] That’s that’s beautiful. I’m done. [laughter] George, go ahead. What’s your What’s your final comment about about doing this? And you guys spoke well for your You guys represented 68 with class, man. I just want to tell you that. Well, well, I don’t know with with my last statement. I don’t know how classy that was, but [laughter] but it’s honest and that’s what I think is a good thing. Oh, but I mean when I said earlier that when I thought about the pipeline from Flint to colleges as football players or as athletes and how it was just so Michigan State oriented, I just still walk away and just think about having bragging rights until I just, you know, go into that casket or go into the grave, man. That game, that’s a big game in many respects.

And anytime I go back to Flint and folks are talking about what used to be, I can talk about that game and I can still hold my head up high and I don’t blink. I just, you know, we took them and I’m proud to say that and it just feels good. It’s just to me representative of Michigan football. There’s so many, you know, great teams that go through the decades, through the years, but when it comes down to a single game like that one in ’68, that’s special. And I don’t think about it often. I don’t take my M ring out that often. It’s still in the box that it came in. I just rub it from time to time. But, yeah, against Michigan State, that’s sweet. Thank you, Jim. Yeah, Denny. Appreciate you guys. Reaching down into the bowels of Michigan football to grab us. Well, hey man, you know, we’ve had our reunions and you know, man, there’s Michigan.

There’s a special thing here. We care about each other. We care about the guys that came before us. We care about the guys we played with and we care about the guys that come after us. And that’s that’s real. I think it’s how we were coached and it’s it’s Michigan. And my final comment is I respect the hell out of both of you. I think you guys did a great job representing your team and we’re going to sign out. It’s over and out and it’s go blue. Go blue, brother. If you like this kind of content, please like, share, follow, and subscribe. And as always, go Sync to video time]