Who Starts? Who Plays? Tim McCormick breaks it down. + CJ Kupec Interview. Blue Hoops Ep 47

[Hail Media Group presents Go Blue Hoops, where Michigan basketball’s [Music] past, present, and future all come together in one show. Hosted by former Wolverine great, 10-year [Music] NBA veteran, and longtime ESPN and NBC college basketball [Music] analyst Tim McCormick. Each episode goes beyond the box scores from championship memories and recruiting stories to sharp breakdowns of the season ahead. [Music] Insight, legacy, Michigan basketball. This is Go Blue Hoops. Hey everybody, the Go Blue Hoops podcast is presented by the leaders and the best at Michigan Medicine. There’s a difference between an answer and a Michigan answer.

To find your Michigan answer, visit michiganers.org. Um, also want to say thank you to Lollipop for sponsoring us for Valiant, led by the great John Wangler and Knights Steakhouse, a foundation, a fixture in Ann Arbor for 50 years, family-owned. Um, we are so proud of our sponsors. Also, I I want to congratulate John Beilein, senior coaching consultant with the Orlando Magic. Their head coach, Sean Sweeney, is big time. He is going to be a coaching star. They met when Shawn was an assistant with the Pistons and and John Beilein was involved there.

They have a real strong impact that’s coming from John Beilein. Um he’s going to share a lot with those young guys. Also, we have a a great Michigan man interview today. No doubt he’s a a Michigan man and he’s a legend. One of the best bigs in Michigan basketball history. You are going to learn so much about Michigan hoops back before my era. Um, he played in the mid70s. And for those of you that are younger and you you may not have heard of him, uh, you may not have ever seen him play.

You’ll learn a ton of really interesting basketball when we introduce C.J. Kupec. Uh, played in the NBA, played uh, some great ball at Michigan All-American his senior year. So stay tuned to the Michigan man interview. So I am so fired up to talk about this basketball team some more. Um and I know a lot of you are just super locked in with Michigan football and I am too. Um this is a season to be excited about. Like I love the direction of Kyle Whittingham. I think that this is the toughest schedule that I’ve ever seen.

So, I’m not expecting perfection, but quarterback play, two NFL running backs, improve offensive line, and the wide receiver core is going to make everybody better. So, I um I I’m really excited. But, I know a lot of you still love your hoops and you want to get your midsummer fix. So, that’s what we’re going to do. Um it’s been obviously an interesting season and off season for Michigan to say the least. They win a national championship. They hang a banner. They have a parade. they lose their coach, they find a new one.

Um, and they keep their entire healthy roster intact, which is really one of the great lessons in perseverance. I didn’t think it would happen, but kudos to Mike Boynton Jr. and his staff. And now with approximately 75 days until Michigan’s first game this year, um, it’s an opportunity to defend their crown. Now it feels like a great time to evaluate the roster and speculate on the rotation, explore the depth. Um, who will be the starters, who are the key subs, who are the developmental guys that will get an opportunity to play this year.

All the freshman are going to play because they’ve got five years now. The clock is ticking for them. Um, one thing that will be different is the the fact that, as I mentioned, the five-year rule put in by the NCAA. That means that every guy has five years to exhaust their five years of eligibility. So, these freshman, and I think about Marcus Moller, um, 7 foot three, why sit him on the bench?

If you’ve got a blowout game or someone that you should control, get him in there. All of the freshman. So, it’s going to be really fun and it’s also going to to really be an an advantage for Michigan to have 13 guys on the team. Now, they could conceivably take two more, but that depth that’s not in your starting group, they make your practices competitive. They add a lot and they also get to develop. So, let’s take a look at Mike Boynton Jr.’s first roster as the Michigan head coach. Now, this is all fun and speculation.

Um, here is how I see the rotation working for the Michigan Wolverines this upcoming season. Okay, we’ve got 13 on the roster as of today. Each team can have 15. We expect one of the additional players will be Roddy Gayle Jr.. That decision has not been finalized. It has not been rectified. Um, I would be surprised if Roddy Gayle Jr. is not on this team. So, as I come up with my favorite starting lineup and the subs, um, I’m gonna put Roddy Gayle Jr. on the roster because I think it’s eventually going to happen.

I don’t know if it’ll happen before their Europe trip or not. Uh, there may be reasons why he could or could not go, but we will find out. So, one potential addition to the roster could be with that 15 spot. if there is a serviceable point guard out there to back up Elliot Cadeau, that would make a lot of sense to me as well. Um, so once again, no inside knowledge on who Michigan might be looking at or why the Roddy Gayle Jr. is taking a little bit of time, but it’s all good.

Uh, so let’s start with point guard. Elliot Cadeau was solid all year, very reliable, and then when the lights got the brightest, he became a star, the most outstanding player, strong leader, um, so poised. Now, last year, Elliot averaged 11 points, seven assists. He played, get this, 27 minutes per game. I expect all three of those numbers to increase. I think that if you only have one point guard on the team, he’s going to play big minutes and he makes everybody else out there better. Um, I’m anxious to watch him play and see what it’s like when you’ve got that big reputation now.

He’s going to get targeted. He’s going to have people that can’t wait to make their name on him and and he’s had a really good summer of work, so I don’t have any problems with that. now more usage. He’s going to have the ball in his hands like he did last year, but they’re going to definitely need him to be a playmaker. Um, if there’s foul trouble or injuries, who is the backup?

Um, today I would guess Trey McKenney would play some backup point guard. I think that Brandon McCoy Jr. has shown that he’s a very smooth ball handler. Not a pure point guard at all, but but serviceable in that area. or maybe Roddy Gayle Jr. with his 5 years of experience would bring something to the table. They could do it. Um it would be a dramatic drop off if Elliot Cadeau cannot be on the court as a point guard. Think about all the lobs for the big guys and and his defense was very much underrated and their transition game is elite when he’s on the court.

Um, but point guard will be an advantage, a massive advantage for Michigan this year. And a lot of it is because of Elliot Cadeau. Okay. Another lock to start and be productive is at the shooting guard. Trey McKenney will emerge as a leading candidate for all Big 10. He is the face of this Michigan team. Um, he is more vocal. He is out there in the community speaking to groups. He has been on a tour going around the country playing at the Nike Skills Academy and the NBA Academy and lot of run against NBA players which should help him a great deal.

Uh he’s on a a whirlwind. I know that from talking to his dad that he is constantly in the gym. He takes no days off and that’s why I’m expecting for him to have a major jump in his production. Remember last year he averaged single digits um about 9.5 points per game, three rebounds. Those are good for a freshman on a loaded team. Um I think he’s going to have a big jump in his offense. I don’t anticipate that he’s going to double his scoring average. I expect 15 or 16 points per game.

I expect he will be the team’s leading scoreer. Um last year, how many minutes do you think that Trey McKenney averaged per game?

I was way up. He averaged 22 minutes per game. As an elite shooter and superb defensive player and ball mover, I can see Trey at 30 minutes per game just like Elliot. Now, who is going to be the backup for Trey McKenney at the two?

I see Brandon McCoy Jr.. And a lot of people are gonna say, I’d love to see him start. He’s got NBA physical skills. He’s so darn athletic. Um, fantastic athlete, defender, winner. Um, I talked to Shawn Ford from USA Basketball at an earlier practice and I said, “You’ve been involved with Brandon McCoy Jr. a lot with USA basketball. What’s a word to describe him?” He said, “Winner.” He said, “He’s won three gold medals as members of US teams.” And you may remember Dusty May always coveted guys that play for USA basketball because they play for the right reasons. and and also they’re able to contribute without always having the ball in their hands.

So, I think because of all the versatility that Brandon McCoy Jr. brings, I think he will be a superb sixman for this Michigan team. He can play the one, two, or the three. Um, I think whoever needs a a blow or whoever gets in foul trouble earliest, I think Brandon McCoy Jr. will take their spot. Um, also, I’m a big fan of Ricky Liburd. uh 6’4. They may need his shooting. He’s a very good shooter, but Michigan has great depth at the shooting guard with Trey, McCoy, and Liburd. Um each has star potential.

All right, so let’s talk small forward. I expect Roddy Gayle Jr. to join the team at some point and and he will be the starting small forward. It’s the biggest question mark on the team. Who’s going to be small forward?

And when it became a possibility, all of a sudden, what I thought might be a problem has become a strength. Roddy Gayle Jr. will make everybody better with his leadership, his maturity. He’s the team’s best cutter. He’s a stopper on defense. You may remember the Iowa game on the road. Michigan was in trouble. They were in danger. And Roddy Gayle Jr. was on the court as he is in every big game this year and he made a block and a steal. He ignited the break. Michigan beats Iowa. Uh he averaged seven points per game last year.

He averaged about 21 minutes per game. That seems right to me. I I I think that his average is not going to go up any. um his minutes probably not either, but he just he’s a winning player and Mike Boynton Jr. will have great confidence when he’s on the floor. Also, a hidden key, Trey McKenney looked up to Roddy Gayle Jr. so much last year. You always saw them together on the court, off the court, um when when they did social media together. They’re extremely close. And I think that for that reason alone, Trey McKenney is going to be better because Roddy Gayle Jr. is on the team.

So, who backs up Roddy at Small Ford?

It may be redundant. I’ve already decided if Brandon McCoy Jr. is your sixman. It seems obvious that he would split time at the two and the three to get his numbers bumped up. I also think that Oscar Goodman may be the ninth man. Um, and that’s really interesting because not many teams have 10-man rotations. A lot of coaches prefer only eight, but I think Oscar Goodman is going to be so valuable because of his physicality, um, his help defense at the three and the four. He’s Michigan’s most physical player and he just plays too hard to keep on the bench.

Um, he brings that toughness that is hard to ignore. Um, also I think that Mike Boynton Jr. has plenty of options. Uh, when I spoke to him three weeks ago, he was so impressed with the versatility and and the the many traits that they have on the wings. And so that’s going to be a strength for Michigan for sure. Um, and then last are the two power positions, four and five. And once again, Michigan has the potential to dominate up front. Two years ago, you remember Danny Wolf and Vlad Goldin really caught everybody off guard because both of those players were transfers um at some point.

And then all of a sudden, last year, Michigan has the best front court in school history. Now, they have five guys that I expect to all be ready to contribute to share at the four and the five. J.P. Estrella and Moustapha Thiam are the starters. Lock it in. Both were big producers last year at their college. Thiam at Cincinnati, I don’t know if you knew this, he played 27 minutes per game. He was their number two scorer, right around 13 points per contest, seven rebounds, very solid. It’s hard to imagine him scoring more than he did last year or to have him play more minutes.

Cincy was guard dominant. I’m impressed he scored 13 because I I didn’t think their guards pass the ball a lot. Um I’m also excited to watch Elliot Cadeau in the lob game. He loves to get his big guys the ball in screen and roll situations. So Thiam should thrive in that position. Um at power forward, J.P. Estrella will immediately be a crowd favorite. He plays like Morez Johnson Jr., tough, physical, confrontational, no nonsense. Um, he has an emerging perimeter game kind of like Morez Johnson Jr. last year. I was asked who the vocal leader is.

I think it’s J.P.. He’s just a darn good player. Um, and and I thought he was underutilized at Tennessee. Rick Barnes usually sticks his two big guys right on the low post. They clog up the middle. There’s not a lot of space. J.P. only averaged 18 minutes per game last year. I think that’s low for a starting power forward. He’s still averaged double figures. Just like Thiam, I think that J.P. will benefit a great deal for playing with Elliot Cadeau. Last thoughts on the four and the five. Jalen Reed will be a high impact guy for Michigan.

He’s been rehabbing his Achilles and his ACL the last two years. Um, I was so impressed the last practice at how advanced he is in his rehab. Um, from my perspective as someone that had 10 knee surgeries during my career. I I missed a lot of time with rehabbing. I know what players go through and I think that when Jalen Reed gets healthy, he is going to have a huge impact. Will he be ready for the first game of the season?

I don’t know. That might be a little bit of a stretch, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s back maybe for Vegas or definitely by when the Big 10 starts if there are no setbacks. Last big guy I want to talk about is Quinn Costello. He may be the best shooter after Trey McKenney. Michigan will need perimeter shooters. Costello is your guy. He’s too skilled to sit. They need him um to be engaged and contributing. He’s a legit 610. He has range like a guard. And once again, if if he’s not playing meaningful minutes, I see it all over the country. guys, especially freshman away from home for the first time, they want to look somewhere else.

And so that’s the reason I think that Quinn Costello is going to have a big role on this team. So that’s it. I expect a nine-man rotation. If you’re playing Oakland and Toledo and and you’re on pace to score 100 points, I think that you may see 10 in the rotation in those situation. Um, also the freshman, I really like Malachi Brown, Joseph Hartman, and 73 Marcus Moller. I I expect them all to contribute at some point this year. Very optimistic about this team.

Hey Michigan fans, we will be right back. But first, a word from our sponsor.

For generations, Knights Steakhouse has been an Ann Arbor tradition. Familyowned and serving the community since 1952. From hand cut steaks and fresh seafood to classic cocktails and genuine hospitality. Visit Knights on Dexter Avenue or downtown Ann Arbor. Knights Steakhouse. Great food. Strong drinks. Ann Arbor tradition.

When prenatal surgery [Music] is your baby’s best chance. When your sight is set on gene therapy for retinal disease. When a new airway is what you need to keep breathing. Only [Music] Michigan answers with specialized treatment options that aren’t available anywhere else in Michigan. We provide the nationally [Music] recognized care you need without having to travel out of state. Learn how University of Michigan [Music] Health answers the call at Michiganansers.org. All right, everybody. Welcome to the Michigan Man interview. And we have a legend with us today. When I first started following Michigan basketball in the 1970s, he was the star.

He was all Big 10 twice and all American C.J. Kupec. Thanks for joining us. Oh, well, thank you, Tim. Yeah, when I uh had to check my resources uh and source material to see and I I really actually thought I was much older than the nine years that separated us, but that’s okay. That’s okay. Yeah. So, I have to start out. You guys had an elite team that had a chance to knock off national champs UCLA. So, you know about winning basketball in March. What are some of your thoughts on the national championship team last season?

I I mean, it was awesome. Uh I was fortunate enough to be able to attend a couple of the games in the United Center in Chicago for the Big 10 uh tournament and they were awesome. uh like some of my teams, not necessarily my Michigan teams, but we sometimes had leads and then would let the teams back in and and uh there were some times throughout last year where the Michigan team would let seemingly let the other team that they were playing back in the game, but then they’d al always survive and come out of and uh they were obviously a very formidable team.

Uh nobody matched up well against them. They had wonderful it seeming like and I don’t know the guys but wonderful team chemistry which as you know Tim is just as good as having talent if if the guys can play together so well and who cares who scores the points and who gets the rebounds as long as they do it. Um that means an immense amount. During our reunion for the UCLA weekend um we had a chance to spend some time together and talk to some of the players. Did you walk away with any thoughts on the way the team practiced and Dusty May and just all the talent on the front line?

Yeah, I mean it obviously well organized. What I didn’t realize about Dusty May because I had only met him and albeit briefly um uh at one of the golf outings in recent years after he first got there and you know you’re a able to kibbitz for about 10 or 15 minutes on one or two holes. Um, but I had no idea how he just is a basketball maniac uh and and loves everything about the game and inserts himself. And I think that further lets him um create strong relationships not only from the coaching standpoint um but also more almost like a friend.

You know, I had a little bit of that with coach or in a different way. Johnny or was kind of like a dad. you were playing for your dad and you didn’t want to disappoint your dad. And I think uh the guys that play for Michigan now or and then up until now that Dusty’s gone, they wanted to play for him, too, because they could they could relate to him just like he related to them. And that goes along. I saw you talking to a lot of the former Michigan legends, uh Glen Rice, Cazzie Russell, the list goes on and on.

I don’t think a lot of people realize that your number 41 is retired in Chrysler Arena. Yes. Um you want to shall I be candid and you want to hear the full story on that?

I do absolutely. All right. Well, from time to time and people, you know, will know, oh, C.J. Kupec and you played at Michigan. Yeah. And then I will lead them along and say, yes, my number is retired and hangs from Chrysler Arena. And they go, really?

And I leave it at that because uh if I would continue with the story, it wasn’t hung or isn’t hung because of anything necessarily that I did. But who wore the number after me?

The number 41 was Glen Rice [Laughter] and it was retired with his name on it of course, but I don’t say I just say the numbers retired. I I would I would tell I have a few chuckles about that. So CJ, you were really quite [clears throat] the athlete. um drafted into the NBA, drafted into the ABA, and you also played football and probably could have had a chance to play in the NFL. Um what was it like playing for Bo Sheckler?

Well, it was great. I mean, he’s a legend and and he’s deserved to be a legend. Um and when I was a senior in high school, uh I I enjoyed football immensely. A lot of people thought football would be the better chance of sport with a better chance for me to make it to the NFL. And I got to be honest with you, Tim, and you’re probably the same way. Making it to the pros was the furthest thing from my mind in high school and all that kind of. And uh and and even being recruited for to play college at the top of level.

Um that came kind of late in my senior year. I was getting some letters my junior year, but we had a great season my my senior year, not just because of me, but we had that chemistry much like Michigan’s team did. And um and it all worked out for us and we wind up playing for the state title here in Illinois when it was all one class in 1971 and we lost by two points. And you might know the leader on that team, uh Quinn Buckner, maybe you might know him.

And uh and then Quinn went on his senior year and beat everybody by 30 points and won it again. But I enjoyed the heck out of football, too. And I played tight end. And I could play tight end at about 230 pounds. And people are going to say, “Whoa, that’s not that heavy.” But back in that era, especially Michigan, uh, even our offensive and defensive linemen, we we weren’t heavy heavy heavy. We were quick and we relied on technique. Um, uh, and u uh, and Bo was wonderful. Um, and I wound up, and you have to remember, too, my freshman year was the last year freshman could not play varsity.

So, we were literally cannon fodder for the varsity, uh, day in and day out in practice. But, we did have three games. We played Michigan State home and away. And, um, we also played at Notre Dame. Our first game was at Notre Dame, and they were supposed to be, that freshman team was supposed to be better than the varsity. And when our coach uh called Bo after we played them and and won, Bo couldn’t believe it. Bo couldn’t actually believe it. But uh you know, Bo would every once in a while just to inspire the freshman uh would come in practice, watch practice, uh and coach a little bit during the season.

Um but you know, and he always had a good staff and it was it was wonderful. It was a wonderful opportunity for me to play to play football. And so I played a lot my sophomore year, but again, because we ran the ball so much, I was almost like another tackle. Paul Seal was the the number one uh tight end and then I was the second tight end for about half the year. And then Bo, I think, was wondering if I was going to stick with basketball or not. Again, this is my sophomore year.

And uh and so I didn’t play down the stretch, but uh there were crazy rules in place too because we tied for the Big 10 championship, but the athletics directors, they went to a vote to see who would um represent uh the Big 10 in the in the Rose Bowl and they actually voted Ohio State and Bo was hot and and reliably so because um you know, we we played Ohio State, you know, well, and and everybody else in the conference really well, but um that it just didn’t work out for us to to repeat.

But um yeah, Bo was wonderful and even when I left the program after my sophomore year then just to stick with uh basketball. Um he was very um outgoing, always had time for me, engaged me in conversation, provided some counseling, uh formal and informal in terms of uh life, etc., etc. So great man to play for, no question about it. Bo did not pass the ball. Well, did you ever get a reception?

No. You know, and I can’t even make up a story like number 41 hanging from the rafters because it it wasn’t like somebody else caught one and it fumbled it and I picked it up and picked it up and ran for a touchdown. Nothing like that ever happened. But you know, an interesting thing, I was on the kickoff receiving team my freshman year when I said when we played Notre Dame at our first game and it was at Southbend and there were a good number of people because where I grew up in suburban Chicago, it was not even an hour and a half drive to South Bend and uh I was on the kickoff receiving team and when um Dave Brown who had a nice career in the NFL, God rest his soul, is not with us any longer, he uh ran it back for a touchdown and I threw a block or got hit by the defense. defender uh for Notre Dame.

And when I was shaking the cobwebs because I probably had a little concussion, uh about 10 or 12 seconds later, I I saw Dave crossing the end zone uh 80 90 yards the other end of the field. So, our hour collectively and Dave Brown’s first play as a as a collegiate and uh we scored a touchdown and it’s just a great great story. So CJ, you um you average 18 points and eight rebounds as a senior, all Big 10, all-American. On that team, you played with the great Campy Russell and your coach was Johnny Orr.

What can you share about that team and and particularly those guys?

Yeah, it was great. Uh you know, Marampi, mine, Joe Johnson, we were all uh freshman. We had, strangely enough, you have to scratch your head on this year. Um Ow and his assistant coaches brought in six scholarship players our freshman year and right away somebody’s not going to start right but we all got along really well and um uh yeah so we had Joe Johnson and Campy and myself um and Bill Ayler that stuck it out all the way through and then um the other two guys left and transferred somewhere else but we have had an undefeated freshman team uh great friend of mine to this day to all of us that played for him.

Dick Honig still a a really good guy and and you know was a national champion. I I don’t know what year it was in the 60s when they won the national title in baseball. He played with Bill Freehan. Um but uh it it was we had a great freshman team and the varsity guys were really good. Um, but there I don’t think there was a effective chemistry and and there wasn’t animosity at all between we sophomores then after after our freshman year played with the older guys. Um, but we had a very mediocre team and then we didn’t have any juniors.

They either had transferred or whatever. We didn’t have any juniors. So then the next year, our my third year, Campy’s third year, um Joe Johnson’s third year, we we had one senior uh on the team and uh and you know, we had a really good team, but uh we really jelled as the team uh progressed and you know, I I think also with the coaching staff and I think we’re hearing more and more about Michigan staff that the assistant coaches are very capable and Boynton’s going to be a really good head coach.

Um uh and the same thing same thing at Michigan. Um we had Jim Dutcher and who went on and coached at Eastern or had come from Eastern Michigan and coached at Minnesota very successfully and u and um Freddy Snowden who then uh was was gone and left to coach Arizona. But then we had Dick Honig uh uh become a assistant varsity coach as well. But um um yeah, no it was it was a good staff and like I said it playing for O was like playing for your dad and he was an excellent player.

You know, not all great players will wind up being good coaches. Uh but I played for a couple of them not only in Johnny or from here in Illinois, Southern Illinois. Um, but also I played for Jerry West. And people don’t realize Jerry West actually coached for a while and I was fortunate enough to have him my second year with the Lakers and he really liked my I call it the bluecollar physical approach to the that I brought to the team. CJ, when I was 13 years old, I saw one of the greatest Michigan games I’ve ever seen.

You played in the NCAA tournament against the national champs UCLA and it was an overtime thriller. You played 45 minutes the entire game, the entire overtime, and had 28 points, and you went head-to-head with Bill Walton. John Wooden was the coach. What do you remember about that classic?

Well, um, let me let me back up because I think, uh, it was they beat us handsomely, like by 20 points in their Christmas holiday tournament uh, my junior year, and Bill Walton was still with the team. And if you look at the box score, uh, Tim of that game, it looks like, hey, you know, CJ played him, uh, reasonably well. But the truth of the matter, and I’m a Michigan guy, so I’m not going to try to liar, at least in this story. Um, Bill Walton was pulled probably midway through the second half, uh, I probably didn’t have too many points nor too many rebounds when he left the game.

And they were so far ahead, they wound up winning by 20. And and if you look at the stats and rebounds, it’s like, oh, well, CJ did okay. But the fact of the matter was or is um most of my points and rebounds came after they were icing down Bill Walton’s knees. Um you know, when you talk about Bill Walton, you talk about one of the best, not only at the college level, but also at the pro pro level. Um the consmate basketball player, not only in terms of physical talents and skills, but knew the game, uh played it uh at a level of teamwork. uh hardly ever seen.

Um and uh and and it was a good he was a I didn’t know him that well, but we belong as him and and as you are too. Now we call ourselves the legends. Um but the what used to be the NBRPA with the women’s teams now from the pros, the ex-pros from the women’s teams as well as the uh ex players from the Globe Trotters and the ABA guys. uh we have now what’s known as the legends and he was active in that and God rest his soul you know none of us is getting younger and unfortunately we we also lost uh we also lost Bill but then uh Bill went on to the pros and it was my senior year when they had Dave Meyers and um uh Marcus Johnson and and others and I don’t know I wish I remembered what I had pregame meal because I would have had that for the rest of my career, I think, be because I I didn’t miss in the first half.

And I and it was like I could have closed my eyes and shot backwards and it would have gone in. And uh and then they changed their defense. I think they had 20 in the first half and we were up by four. And um what happened then was uh they changed their defense a little bit. I came back to earth and had still had a decent second half, but I had a shot at overtime and uh and it rattled the rim and it was a tight score at the time. And quite frankly, obviously before uh cable TV and multi-channels having games, uh it wasn’t widely seen, but the Lakers did see it because the game was out on the West Coast or near the West Coast.

And uh that’s why I was drafted by the Lakers pretty much based on on that performance. CJ, looking back on your Big 10 career, two-part question. Who was the toughest big man that you faced while you were in the Big 10?

And what was your your toughest venue to visit and try to play?

Oh boy, that’s a tough one. Um, toughest Big 10 center. Well, he wound up being a teammate, too. Um, I would have to say, maybe you don’t remember these guys, but Kim and Carrie Hughes played at Wisconsin, and they were 6’11, identical twins. I think they still are the record largest twins being born in the state of Wisconsin. and um that one wore 54, the other one wore 45 and one was left-handed and one was right-handed. Other than that, you couldn’t tell one from the other. And I think what made them hard to play is I never knew which one I was covering because, you know, they looked identically.

Um but they were very good and um and and always a challenge. But I don’t think we ever lost to them either. So, um, but and then your toughest venue, I think Michigan State. You know, a lot of people will say Ohio State, but I but we seem to play well at Ohio State, but see Michigan State and Michigan back then. Um, there were some high school rivalries rivalries that then transferred from um Detroit area and the state of Michigan to Michigan State and Michigan. And so the u the competition just transferred from the high school level to the to the college level and uh and they were always a tough opponent.

I remember though and I think it was h I think it was maybe my senior year uh I made a shot at the buzzer kind of a fast break jumper from around 15 17 ft and uh and we put him away. Um but you know I also played against and he was a bit younger um help me now here the Indiana center Kent Benson. Kent Benson. Yeah. Kent Benson. And even as a freshman he was a very good player. And I remember being down at halftime to Indiana uh at by 14 in Chrysler and we came back in the second half and uh and defeated them and we all had a very good game that game.

But uh you know there was never uh never anything more uh more pleasing I guess satisfying if you beat Indiana and you beat I bet Bobby Knight was not happy was he?

Oh no he wasn’t. In fact, senior year um when only the Big 10, let’s see now, let me get this straight. When we played Indiana and we tied for the Big 10 championship and um and what happened was only the Big 10 champs went to the tournament because I think there were only what would that have been 16 teams?

Um and they didn’t expand the tournament till the next year. And so we uh we we played tight Indiana. We had to play on a neutral site, the University of Illinois Tuesday after finishing the regular season on a Saturday. And we uh really played well. And you know, you asked also who was tough to play against, but I had a very good game against Ken Benson. Albeit he was only a freshman, but he was a very good freshman player. And uh needless to say, Bobby Knight was not happy then either.

After Michigan, CJ, you were drafted into the NBA. Um, you were the backup center for Kareem Abdul Jabbar. What was that experience like?

Well, it was great. I mean, obviously, there’s an argument to be made that he’s still the best player there ever was in in the NBA. And I got to learn from him. And believe me, when I went in the game and replaced him, uh it was a different kind of ball that we played because nobody can play the center position like Kareem. And especially a guy whose initials CJ Stanford can’t jump. Uh you know, just I just didn’t really have those inside um skills or not played with my back to the basket too much.

Um, but I also knew when I was going in, I would go in at the end of the first quarter and the beginning of the second quarter, and if things went well, I’d be left in to give him a rest. And then at the end of the third quarter and the beginning of the fourth quarter. And that’s um that’s kind of the approach it took. And then when we made the playoffs my s my sophomore year, my second year with the Lakers, uh because we finished, I believe that year with the best regular season record after really not having performed that well his first year there. not he but the rest of us.

Um and uh the funny thing was there used to be I think a publication about for the NBA kind of like a sports illustrated but a smaller version and uh I was the answer to a sports quiz along with my teammate Don Ford and uh and one other player and the the question was who played in this past season which would have been the 767 season and played in every regular season game and the uh the answer was uh C.J. Kupec was one of them, but there was an asterisk uh next to my name and it was I go, “Well, what’s the asterisk for?” And apparently, since I did it by only averaging 11 minutes a game, that was like really special.

So, I go, “Well, I guess that’s a that’s a compliment of I’ll take it. I’ll take it.” Yeah. CJ, uh, we’re both very close with Rudy Tomjanovich. Um, he was an assistant coach when I was in Houston, but you had a chance to play with the great legend. Uh, what memories do you have of of playing behind Rudy T?

Well, Rudy’s one of the best there ever was um not only at at Michigan where he was phenomenal, but also in the NBA and then as a coach. Um, and and as you alluded to, Tim with the uh the legends, he’s very active and just a super guy and probably you can say the same thing. I think I’m closer to him now than I was when we were teammates. Um, but just a a super guy. Um, now here’s here’s another little known fact. You know, there was a book when Rudy about Rudy when he almost died when Kermit Washington punched him in a ball game and um and uh we can kind of it’s not a humorous thing, but there is a a kind of a humorous element to that because uh a book called The Punch was written, a very fine book.

It was about Rudy T and Kerman Washington leading up to that play. their lives and how that play affected their lives afterwards. And uh I’d highly recommend it. But there’s an interesting point in there because if you really want to win a beer sometime at a bar, ask somebody. Oh, they’ll say, “Yeah, about Rudy T and C Watch the Punch.” Oh my god. Unbelievable. And then you ask, “Well, who replaced Rudy T in the game?” Oh wow. And yours truly replaced Rudy T. So, I don’t know if you’ve heard this, but Rudy once shared with me that he always had a fear that those massive scoreboards was someday going to fall on top of him.

And when the doctors got to him, he um he said, “Did the the scoreboard land on my head?” And then he also said that there’s a salty taste in my mouth and they said it was brain fluid. That’s not a that’s never a good sign. But wow, that that must have been traumatic to see. un unbelievable, you know, and he came back after that injury where you would have thought there’s no way he’s going to come back from that. And he actually had some subsequent very good years as a player, too.

I mean, it it it talks about his durability and his dedication. All right, so I’ve got some in closing some quick hitter, fast-paced type of questions for you. What was the most points you ever scored in a game at any level?

I think it was 41 because it happened to be my number at Michigan, but I don’t think I did it at Michigan. I think I did it in high school. Um, yeah, 41. Favorite NBA player that you played with or against?

Favorite was uh Kareem Abdul Jabbar. I I would say uh and then through the years and I know this is quick hitting answer um but you mentioned the Rockets and I was teammates with Moses Malone and his story was a great story as well and u and uh quiet man uh but a quiet leader as well and I learned a lot from him and I I’ll tell you why I brought bring up uh Moses when I was already then playing in Italy and he was working the angle of him himself going to Italy and instead of not maybe getting the money he wanted, um he came to Italy to to research and I was uh I came to town in Milan to just because I was there and he stopped the press conference there probably 20 people holding a press conference to seek me out and believe me when we were teammates we were friendly but I can’t say that we were that great of friends but he was a great teammate and um and I will always remember that you know he was very helpful as as a teammate and a and a great player.

What is your shoe size?

16 and getting bigger seemingly. I don’t understand that one, but I’m a 16 also. Yeah. See?

Yeah. Um, if not Michigan, which school would you have attended?

Probably Notre Dame. Um, I was about an hour and a half. Uh, I wanted my parents to be able to see me. So, they only missed a couple games when I decided to go to Michigan for one of the reasons. Um, but it was funny. I was recruited there for football as well. So when I went there for my visit, I met with God himself, meaning the football coach, Eric Parcian, and then uh and then I went to their spring banquet after um I don’t know if you remember Kus Jones, Sid Catlet, Austin Carr, they were all seniors.

And it’s like WGN TV all always televised those games in the Chicago area. And again, there weren’t many options to watch. But then when I went to the to the banquet and I’m I was raised Catholic so I thought well that’s pretty cool too um they interview inter uh they they introduced all the players and even though those three seniors were leaving all the underassmen were my size or bigger and I was demoralized. I thought oh where am I going to play?

So, um, uh, I decided to choose Michigan. And the the footnote to that though was, um, a few weeks later, I think it was Johnny D, who was the coach at, uh, at Notre Dame then, but, either retired or went somewhere else, and and, um, Digger Phelps came to coach, and Digger had been recruiting me and a really good guy um, for where was he before he went to Notre Dame?

What is he or forom?

Forom. Very good. Yeah. And he and he was recruiting me to for forom. And he called me and says, “Zig.” And I had seen it in the Chicago Tribune, Chicago Sun Times that he got the Notre Dame job. And it was like that day he goes, “I’m at Notre Dame now. Are you coming?” But I had already signed the National Letter of Intent to go to Michigan. And I don’t know that I would have changed my mind anyway, but that was kind of a a neat thing. Who’s the most famous person you’ve ever met?

Most famous person I ever met. Um, maybe President Ford. That’s a good one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I met some pretty famous people, too, in my in my post playing career when I was doing some major fundraising for the United States Naval Academy. Um, one of my dearest donors, but also a great guy, Captain Jim Levelvel of Apollo 13 fame. He was another one. He’s right up there. Yeah. Just a couple of others. Um, in the history of Michigan basketball, who is your favorite player that you enjoyed watching?

Oh, wow. I’ll tell you what, same last name, but they’re not related, so it’s a tie. And my teammate Campy Russell and another one of my heroes um in addition to Rudy uh would be Cazzie Russell because Cazzie Cazzie and I were also teammates with the Lakers and and he could spin a tail, tell a story and uh I enjoyed watching him play. All right, I want your help getting Campy on the podcast. Okay, I’ll talk. You got what what was your favorite thing about being a student at the University of Michigan?

Ah, I don’t know if it was my favorite thing, but you know, you heard a lot of stories about how at certain schools it was really easy to get through. Michigan is challenging. It it is challenging and you don’t know, you don’t think about it at the time. you think about, well, you know, why don’t I get a break here, a break there, but um I think you do in the end wind up being not only better educated, but you’re a better individual because you had to work hard, not only on the basketball court, on the football field, but in the classroom.

And uh I you know, I I just think you you come out much better prepared to take on the world. What does CJ stand for?

You want you want to know?

I do. can’t jump there when I when I was a senior banquet and the banquetss back then after after the season maybe they got a little bit bigger when you were there Tim but there weren’t that many people maybe you know 50 people or something like that um but the writer for the uh the Ann Arbor News uh covered also the basketball team and he had the the duty to intro introduce me at the banquet and he sends stands up there he does some introductory remarks and he says and it can be revealed now for the first time what CJ the initials really stand for and I’m totally not not and ignorant about what he’s going to say and he goes it’s C can’t j jump can’t jump and I go holy cow so so yeah Charles Charles Jerome though is the real deal so you um you jumped pretty well because you played center in the NBA at 66 so I that impresses me um well you know But the just uh you know who I learned that from and I went to his wake as well.

I didn’t know um Wes Unsold was by size, maybe a little bit heavier, but I mean he could bang with the best of them and he uh he his rookie year was the same rookie year as Kareem Abdul Jabbar and Wes Unel got the MVP that year. I do know that. Um, final question, CJ. You’ve had 50 years to reflect on your career. Um, when you look back in time, what is the the favorite Michigan memory that you would love to relive?

I think [Laughter] this is a little selfish, too. I think if we could I could have relived that end of the game shot against UCLA when the game was tied. And if and if we if I made that shot and we go on to the tournament, who knows?

We were playing really great ball and it wasn’t as many teams back then, we could have maybe won the whole thing and then who knows what kind of contract I could have commanded coming out of Michigan then. But you know what’s funny about that is if you would have made that shot, won a national championship, 41 maybe hanging in the rafter at Chrysler and it wouldn’t be Glen Rice, it would be you. Oh, well, I tell you that’s that’s kind of you to say, but it would have had to take a lot more than uh to displace uh Glen Rice.

He’s he’s one of the all-time greats. That’s no question. Well, um I’ve always enjoyed our relationship and our chats at the reunions and I was a big fan of your career. Um I had your basketball card when I was just a little tikeke and I carried it around with me because you were a Michigan man and uh it’s been a real privilege and an honor. Your stories are fascinating and and C.J. Kupec, you’re a real Michigan man. Thank you. Oh, thank you, Tim. Very generous with your comments and I’m a follower of yours, too.

And uh we’ll be getting together. If if not on TV like this, then uh on the radio, we’ll we’ll be on the golf course. How’s that?

I I like that a lot. So, thanks for joining us on the the Go Blue Hoops podcast. Our special guest, C.J. Kupec. And CJ, go blue. Go blue.

If you like this kind of content, please like, share, follow, and subscribe.]